Jesus Christ Forums

[Seeker]

Is masturbating a sin?
I don't think so.. but.. I'm sure someone here does...


Edited by Webmaster!
Admit it.. or Deny it? Choose your path!

[webmaster]

Yes it is a sin!

What do you think about when you are doing it?
You are lusting after someone, that's called covet!

Yes we all guilty of it!

If something happened to my wife
I would rather do that then to commit fortification though,
sinning againist myself is better
then causing somebody else to sin!
_________________
http://www.former-muslims.com

[Guest]

Yes masturbation is a sin, because it causes lust, and for other reasons:

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Genesis 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


We can see from these that masturbation is indeed a sin - though note that Onan's sin was not masturbation but the practise of a form of rudimentary contraception. The principle still applies, though.

/Lucilius

PS If it says "came to but" in the scripture from Genesis, that is not intentional, the board seems to have changed what it says - it should say "came to pass".

[Guest]

The act of masturbation in and of itself is not sinful, rather, as you guys have said, lust is the sin, not masturbation.

[webmaster]

I'm not sure if I agree with you 100%, here's why

The act of adultry in and of itself is not sinful, rather, as you guys have said, lust is the sin, not adultry.

The act of homosexuality in and of itself is not sinful, rather, as you guys have said, lust is the sin, not homosexuality.

You & us kinda opened up a can of worms?
_________________
http://www.former-muslims.com

[Guest]

Whatchu talkin' 'bout webmaster? You haven't said anything against what I have said. Adultery and homosexuality are sins apart from lust because they involve another person sexually. Masterbation only becomes a sexual act when you lust. Are wet dreams sinful? They are your body's way of "cleaning out the system". I kindof look at the act of masterbation in the same light. It's just that there is no real way of masterbating without lusting. If you could masterbate without lusting, then it wouldn't be sinful. But most of us can't.

[Chrysoprasus]

For those of you who think it is wrong, here is a pretty good link to help support your view.
http://christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y011.html

For those that think it's ok, here's a link to help support your view too.
http://christianteens.about.com/library/weekly/aa041301a.htm
There's links at this place that deal with both sides of it.

Both sites maily focus on teens (lol) but you'll find some links that deal with it for adults, married, single, etc..

Chrys
_________________
Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth.

[webmaster]

[Chrysoprasus]

Lucilius: I noted that you posted these verses.

Genesis 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

I've noticed that others also use these verses when speaking against masturbation.
Gotta ask. WHAT does this have to even remotely do with the subject? He was not masturbating, he was having sex with a woman. His sin consisted of purposely withdrawing before his seed could go into her. Many husbands and wives use early withdrawal as an aid to prevent pregnancy.
Please re-read the passage and notice that Onan's sin was refusing to continue his brothers line. Even if you truly believe a man has to masturbate if he doesn't completely finish inside of a woman, you can't say that he was guilty of lust. "go unto her and MARRY her".
This was his wife.
I apologize if anyone thinks I shouldn't speak so plainly on the subject, but I believe it's necessary to properly study this.

Chrys
_________________
Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth.

[Guest]

Hi Chrysoprasus,
Yes, I know that Onan's sin was coitus interruptus rather than masturbation. The Victorians used to interpret those verses as speaking against masturbation (hence "onanism") but I don't see it mentioned in the text.

The reason I posted it was because Onan was killed both for disobeying the Law (Deuteronomy 25:5) but also for using sex for a purpose it was not intended for. If he had just not wanted to have children by his brother's wife, then he could have refused - he wouldn't have then had sex with her anyway. It looks to me that Onan wanted to have sex with Tamar but not to have children by her, hence he used a contraceptive measure. I think sex was created for procreation (Genesis 1:28 ) and that this passage shows us that sex used for any other purpose alone is sinful. That is why I think masturbation is a sin, partly because it leads to lust, and partly because it is a way of having sex (with oneself) without intent to procreate. Hence I posted the verses about Onan.

Hope that clears things up.

/Lucilius

[Chrysoprasus]

Lucilius: Thank you for your reply.
What happens when a woman is beyond childbearing years, or has had a hysterectomy, or the man is sterile, or some other reason exists that makes reproduction impossible? Does that make sex wrong for them?
I can't go with the theory that sex is soley for procreation purposes. Of course, that's the natural purpose of it, but also it was made for the enjoyment of both the man and his wife.
I take it you believe birth control to not be a good thing? Feel free to start another topic on just that if you'd like to discuss it in detail so that it doesn't take over the intended subject of this thread.
Chrys
_________________
Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth.

[Lionel]

[Guest]

Liculius posted:

"And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." Genesis 38:8

I'm not saying that masturbation is right, but this passage in Genesus 38 has nothing to do with masturbation. Onan was killed because he refused to help carry on his brother's geneology. It was disobedience to God.

[Guest]

What is sin but disobedience to God? Masterbation is wrong because God has not ordained it. Your body produces seman whether you have sex or not. Your body gets rid of it through dreams if you stay unmarried. By unmarried I mean abstinate(sp). If you are not abstinate, you are married in God's eyes. He does not demand a ceremony other than sex. Sex is the ultimate ceremony of marriage.

[dp]

no... there is a difference between sex and marriage... they are not one and the same... sex outside of a marriage of a man and a woman does not make those people "married in God's eyes"...

[Chrysoprasus]

Why not dp? IF two people wanted to be married in the OT it seemed that they had sex in order to seal it. Even if a man raped a woman it appears he had married her in God's eyes, he was then made to take her as a wife with all the other duties of a spouse.
Chrys
_________________
Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth.

[E.C.Everett]

Chrysoprasus is correct. Therein lies the dilemma, because I think you are both correct. However, I think DP is confusing what God views as marriage, and what we view as marriage; being marriage only AFTER a ceremony.

Hebraic culture wasn't like this, but then again, Pagan cultures held virginity in high estate as well. The greeks felt the virtues of virginity, when they clothed the vestals. Artemis is another example that comes readily to mind. Virginity has always been regarded as a high virtue, by virtually all cultures, at all times. It is only us "moderns" that have discovered a "sexual revolution." Well, of course you had the fertility cults of ancient time, now reviving as Wicca, but this sort of practice traces back to "demon copulation" in Babylon, as well as being "charmed" by priest, witch, sage, and magician. And this was always regarded as abominable, leading to such practices as child sacrifice, to placate the "gods" lust for virgins. Prostitution is regarded as the oldest profession in the world, because of these roots in magic and superstitions. I digress.

Back to the "sexual revolution."

Look at it's fruit all around us; in lives scarred and battered by sexual "addictions", abuses, divorces (with it's own tolls upon children and adults). Prostitution, slave trafficking (you think that sex is unrelated to this?) STD's, teen pregnancies, abortions, ad infinitum. Masterbation is sinful, because it is a cheapening of a sacred thing. Granted it is a rather "cheap" cheapening; I mean at least the worshippers of Molech were serious about sex's "power" of transcendence. Masterbation is only a cheapening of the soul, for want of recognizing anything transcending "animal nature" and " needs" in it. Sex is one of God's gifts to us that transcends ourselves and gives us a glimpse of something greater than ourselves, much like music, art, and poetry. It is "magic", but it is sacred because it is God's gift, not because it is "magic" in itself. This is why God considered the sex act a binding marriage vow. There is a mystery here, but it is clear enough to me, and all cultures, at all times in history, Pagan, Christian, or Atheistic, that sex, and virginity and marriage as it's 'consummation" (remember this word?) are sacred things. Masterbation is only a laughable imitation.

Frightening implications, don't you think?

Regards, Everett
_________________
"What is wrong with the world? I am.". . .G.K.Chesterton

[dp]

Chrysoprasus and Everett: Let me clarify my position, then. Of course, the semantics of “sex vs. marriage” could be discussed incessantly and Pharisaically, but hopefully not as that’s not my intention… and no, I don’t believe that I’m as confused about marriage as you seem to believe that I am, Everett... however, I suppose it's possible...

I believe there is a difference between the physical act of a sexual union between any two individuals (for whatever reason) and a sexual union between a husband (male) and a wife (female) for the reasons stated hereinafter.

I believe that God truly and originally intended (and still intends) marriage to be between one man and one woman, both initially virgins, who wish(ed) to become as husband and wife… and to live within a monogamous covenant bond of marriage… hence: “married in the eyes of God”.

I believe that they, themselves, originally intended that commitment to one another for a lifetime (hopefully)… that the marriage was consummated with sexual union between virgins… further, that the sexual union be entered into for the purposes of procreation and also as an enjoyable expression of love for one another… and, yes, a gift of God.

I believe that OT marriages were valid and were recognized as such and that they can and may actually still occur today… with NO other required ceremony of “man” necessary other than the intent of the heart and the subsequent consummation of the marriage with a sexual union of the virgin man and a virgin woman… “sealed”… with God as witness…

I also believe that there are only certain Biblical allowances/conditions for divorce and/or remarriage… and trying to avoid legalism, by that I mean: not necessarily accommodating every want, desire, or whim of humanity… that divorce/remarriage be in accord and harmony with Scripture… unfortunately, humankind gets in the way.

The Bible recognizes many forms of sexual immorality… adultery, fornication, incest, rape, homosexuality, prostitution… I don’t those sexual acts are considered as within the covenant of marriage… nor do I believe God to have looked favorably upon them… but sexual union within a monogamous marriage – yes!!!

Chrsy… as for your scenario of rape… as I understand it, Mosaic law mandated such a resulting course of action, so agreed...

But what of a man raping a woman married or engaged/betrothed to another man??? The law required death of the man for raping a betrothed damsel… therefore, the rapist and the betrothed weren’t married in the eyes of God.

What of David’s adultery with Bathsheba??? I seem to remember God didn’t look upon that very favorably.

What of Jesus’ words in Luke 16:18 or John 4:18??? Jesus “shattered” the “definition” of adultery by including the thought… the mere desire or condition of the heart. RE: Matt. 5:27-28, Matt. 15:19.

Paul wrote of all those things, as well.

I believe God has made His will regarding sex pretty clear in the Scriptures and I prefer to believe the Word of God rather than liberal theologies or doctrines of men intended to sooth itching ears... and trying not to conform to the world as is a prevalent attitude in today’s society (not inferring/implying anything regarding either of you, so please don’t take it as such), but I believe that sex outside of a marriage that is not in harmony with the Scriptures is sin as revealed in the Scriptures… to me “sex” is not all “married in the eyes of God”… a great deal of it goes to sexual immorality and is spoken of in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation!!!

I hope I’ve clarified my position on the matter unargumentatively without being too redundant or legalistic.

[E.C.Everett]

dp,

"Confused" was a bad choice in a word. In fact after reading your post, at least in a couple of senses, it seems that we are saying the same thing from diferent angles.

[dp]

Thank you, Everett... I thought it might be helpful to offer a more detailed explaination of my beliefs in that regard... you present some excellent points as well...

[Guest]

[Guest]

I'm a Christian and I do masterbate. The lust thing does not have to be part of your time. Onan sinned by not obeying God. and it does not mention that he masterbated to spill his seed. he could have pulled out before ejactulating. No where in the word does it condenm this act. nowhere. God pointed out a lot of sexual sins with great detail and he either failed to bring up the subject of masterbation, or it slipped his mind or it was not a sin, so why should he waste our time on it. If you have SCRIPTURE TO BACK YOUR CLAIM Then bring on the scripture and only the scripture to back your claim of masterbation being sin. Jesus used the word to defeat the enemy and did not get into opinion of how someone felt or what they think, and I beleive that we as Christians should feel the obligation to do the same since we are called to be like Christ.

The only thing we have to make a life stance is Gods word. if God did not feel that it was important enough of a subject to write about why should we have fear of God punishing us for doing it.

Now on the other hand, if you are using porn, or lust to feed your mind to bring about the act of masterbation then you are going against the word, for in the word it does say a lot about Coveting thy neighbors wife or anything that he has. It also says that to look upon a woman to lust for her is adultry. and it also says that fornacation is a sin, and to look upon and lust after a person and your not married to them, would consitute fornacation in your mind, but I will add that the word does not say a single person can commit fornacation in their mind, so therefore that can become another issue for a different thread.

Bring on the Scriptures and lets discuss the issue of Masterbation. try to with hold your false teachings that were giving to you from a person who did not teach you using the word as the stright edge for your growth.

Only the word of God is the issue when debating anything that is or is not a sin. So stick to the only book that has any value at all for the determination of right and wrong. Take me to the book.

Oh, a couple more things, suppose a guy had a vasectomy and no longer could spill his seed, and what about the woman who cannot spill her seed at all. And there is the thing of being unclean until evening, but just to have sex in the bonds of marriage made you unclean until evening, and to have an emissional discharge at night outside the camp would make you unclean, and to sit in a chair that a woman set in during her period would make you unclean and how about those people who sit in the pews at church and there was a woman on her period and she had already set in that same chair or pew at church, just before you had. well I'm about through trying to make a point as to "is masterbation a sin, or not a sin".

One more thing Pastors, Don't shake hands at church with a woman, she may be unclean and that would be the same as spilling your seed and you would become unclean, just drawing a picture to compare to.

I guess I'm just like the Pastor who says let me close with this, Is not the issue of the unclean thing more to do with Health and safety issues that God ordained to protect us till we discovered that germs were killing us, and now we have a greater understanding of why God placed all the restrictions upon his people. It was so they would live and not die from disease's that would be spread had they not observed the restrictions that God placed upon his people. Now all that I have said is open for disscussion, mainly because I have posted it on an open forum.

[Alpha]

Jesus says even if you THINK or LOOK on a woman and have evil thoughts or sexual thoughts about a woman and she is not your wife, it is adultery*Matt 5:28*. If you masturbate and you are thinking of girls, it is a sin. If you masturbate and you are not thinking of anything, it is not a sin. The act of masturbation is not a sin, but the thought that goes with it is considered lust and adultery. Hey man, I used to masturbate too. I was just like you, trying everyway i can to try to make the bible support it, or trying to make the bible not condemn it. But you just have to face that it is a sin, and you have to give it up.

[Guest]

NIV
Matthew 5
28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

KJV
Matthew 5
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

NAS
Matthew 5
28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


You have mentioned Matt 5:28

Lets examine it from three of the more accepted versions.

Jesus said "But I tell you" But I say to you" "But I say unto you" So we have defined to whom Jesus was speaking.

What was he speaking about? everyone who Looks at, whosoever looketh on, or anyone who looks at; This line will show that it must include your eyes in order to commit the next part, it does not say in any of the three versions that you are thinking about, rather it clearly states a moment of time where you are in the presence of the women you are looking upon. and something occurs.

What is the something that occured?

Lust, thats right the deep desire to have this woman as your mate, or sexual partner, so uncontrollible that if she would you would. that would be lust, it is depraved affections.

It does not condemn the natural desires that are part of the makeup that God himself designed us with. God created me to be attracted to the oppisite sex. So when I think about the oppisite sex is that lust? I may just want to feel good. It does not have to be a certian person I want to be with, maybe just a female, which I might add is part of the natural process or else we would not have populated the earth with out the natural desire. when I think about the natural desire to have sexual intercorse as God designed me then you have implyed that the design has a flaw in it. if there is a flaw in the design then there is a flaw in the designer. Myself I just avoid the thinking about anyone except myself. I want to be with me and enjoy me. I do not have porn and I leave the TV off, no radio or any other distractions.

There is a natural desire and then there is lust. the two are not one and the same. I cannot lust after my spouse no matter how hard I try. But I could lust after my neighbors spouse.

Lust is depraved affections.
Natural desire is just that, natural and God designed.

When you pin-point a certian person then you are involved in the act of lust and then it becomes sin.

2 Corinthians 10
4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,


Notice it says "We are destroying speculations" please do not speculate on the subject, but bring out only the word of God.

it also says "and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God," God knew what He was doing when he creatd us with perfect design.

then it continues with "and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ," Thinking about a certian woman as you look upon her is the way it is decribed in the book of Matt.

Do not try to add to Gods word or take away from it. Jesus came to give us life, and that life is to be more abundent. Worrying about "this is wrong or that is wrong" is not life abundently.

The scribes and pharasees did the same thing to people and tried to pass it off as the commands of God. Jesus condemned them as white washed graves. Dishes that were clean on the outside but inward they were just filth.

[Alpha]

You are going to have to learn the hard way. For every sin, there is a consequense.

[Guest]

[Alpha]

When/ or if you have a wife, and you are walking down the street with her and other guyz are checking her out, whistling and sayin, "Hey mama, sweet thang, over here." Or even if they aren't saying anything but just looking at her lustfully, I would like to see how much fun you think you will be missing out on life then. God created rules for a reason. Do you actually thing it's not evil if you think of a girl(let's say she is married) and masturbate over her knowing that she already has a mate? These things are wrong. The things that this world has accepted is wrong. You might enjoy it, but that does not mean it is right. This world has accepted fornication, ambition, homosexuality...I can go on and on. This world is evil. When I was in highschool, it was "cool" to have sex with a female. You would get what we call, "props" for that. But when I accepted the Lord, I actually understood that these things are wrong. Do not let this world fool you. We(TRUE Christians) are not telling you how to live your lives. You can live it the way you want to. You can or cannot accept the Word of God if you want to. But don't say later on that you were not warned. For God said there will be no excuses. Everyone would have had the oppurtunity to know Him and follow His Word.

[Guest]

Just personal opinions

Why do any of you insist that your opinion is of more value then the word of God. why not go to the word and show just cause for your beliefs.

[bebop]

Is masturbating to anime or hentai (animated pornography) a sin? becayuse aftetrall.. they arent real people.. please help

[Alpha]

[Crystal]

Darn if I know the subject isnt clear in the bible ..it only says if you think of someone (or something) with lust than you have commited a sin.
But it says nothing of masterbation the act alone.

Personaly I think its great and in fact I admit I do it myself quite often despite haveing a mate.
But to me its something normal and natural nothing bad about it but i'm sure others think differantly.
_________________
Some days your the windshield.
Somedays your the bug.

[Crystal]

er??? thats not very nice
_________________
Some days your the windshield.
Somedays your the bug.

[private1]

I would just like to point out one thing to the person saying that if our exact situation is not defined in the Bible then we should just kick it to the curb. If I recall correctly the Bible specifically says that a man should not lie with another man as he would his wife, but it does not say anything about women in this situation.

So, using your logic since the Bible does not mention masturbation being a sin, would you also say that women having sexual relationships with other women is not a sin?

[Trippinonfaith]

Masturbating is not a sin if you dont think about anything. In this sense, it is more like meditation.
_________________
Hangin with my bro Jesus!

[Omega]

It is written:Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1 Corinthians 3:16-20

God Bless!

[miracleshappen]

So what if it is your mate that you are thinking of as you masterbate? I thought anything done in the marriage bed was ok as long as it was between the two who are married??
_________________
Courtney Anne, Mommy to Miracles

[LindaBee2]

[LindaBee2]

Found the Scripture I was referring to. It's Romans 1:26-27. See? Research does help. LOL

[LindaBee2]

[quote]I am thankful that God's Word does not give a direct reference to this subject other than just to say to keep our thoughts in subjection.../quote]

With all due respect to our Creator, I'm not! I wish He had made His thoughts absolutely clear on the subject of masturbation. Then there wouldn't be so much confusion. Is it a sin? Is it okay?

Which is it, Lord? LOL

[Colleen]

Masturbation is not a sin because it feels good. If God had intended masturbation to be a sin, he would have made it a very painful experience, to discourage you from doing it!
_________________
I'm not a religious person

[webmaster]

SIN
Pronunciation: seen, sin
Definition:
[n] an act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will
[v] commit a sin; violate a law of God or a moral law

[Delphi]

True, God does not say in the Bible, "Thou shall not masturbate", therefore it's not a sin. Masturbation feels good and is pleasurable, and can relieve stress. God did not intend for human beings to forgo all pleasures in life and to be stressed out all the time. It's a perfectly natural act, and in men, it has been shown that if done regularly, the chance of getting prostate cancer is greatly reduced.

[webmaster]

God says in the bible thou shall not Lust but you don't obey it so why would you care if He said "Thou shall not masturbate" for?


MASTURBATE
Pronunciation: 'mastu`beyt
Definition: [v] get sexual gratification through self-stimulation

[LindaBee2]

[Colleen]

Yes, but if masturbation is a sin, why does it feel good? God would not purposefully torment people by making them forgo something which gives them great satisfaction. God loves people, therefore He could not be so cruel. That is more like something Adolf Hitler would do. God is not evil.
_________________
I'm not a religious person

[Alpha]

[sethhman]

Masturbating gets rid of dead semen in the penis, if you don't masturbate regularly, your chances of prostate cancer go up. So if we don't masturbate, we could die, and God doesn't kill people without reason, does he?
_________________
Spirits have always faced violent opposition with mediocre minds.
--Albert Einstein

[Alpha]

[sethhman]

I have noticed that everything that God doesn't want us to do has a reason, we may say that if we just drink a little that it won't effect us. God says that it will lead up to something worse. Same with things like stealing, you'll steal so much you'll eventually effect someone else. This isn't true with masturbation, you effect no one when you masturbate, when you lust after a woman,(or man) they won't know, so you're effecting nobody. In fact, if masturbation was outlawed or forbidden, there would be probably be more rapings and melessed children. Remember the Catholic priests that melessed children? Priests that are Catholic are forbidden to all sexual acts at all, so after going so long without it, you become uncontrollable.
_________________
Spirits have always faced violent opposition with mediocre minds.
--Albert Einstein

[Alpha]

[sethhman]

i have prayed for God to help me with that for years and it hasn't helped. I think if it's going to be that hard, then it's impossible, and if God doesn't allow us to be tempted beyond what we are able, then why do people commit suicide? They might not have reached what we are able to withstand, but their minds tell them that they cannot anymore.
_________________
Spirits have always faced violent opposition with mediocre minds.
--Albert Einstein

[Alpha]

[LindaBee2]

There are several ways to avoid giving in to temptation. The first is obvious: pray. Pray to whatever deity you worship for guidance and strength. Secondly, find something to distract you. Whenever I find myself getting ready to give in to a particular temptation, I do something like read my Bible or watch a movie. (I've been watching "Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" a lot recently.) Also, if you can, contact a friend or talk to a family member. Never be ashamed to form a support system. There's a reason why so many people go to AA meetings and whatnot.

[Rakim]

I'm not going to read all the replies before I answer. I haven't read anything in the Bible saying masturbation is a sin. The Bible talks about sexual immorality and lust and adultery, nothing about touching yourself in a sexual manner. I guess some will never get over the hangups concerning sexuality, as if it of itself is sinful. We are all sinners no matter what, that is why we have Jesus Christ. If what you are doing causes you to be immoral and your conscience( or the Spirit) tells you that you are being wicked, then cease and desist. But I think its better to masturbate than to burn with lust and go out and do something stupid, like having one-night stands or paying for hookers. Now THAT is sexual immorality.

If you can do it in a responsible and healthy and private manner, I don't see the wrong in it. Unless your wacking off to photos of kids or fantasizing about your brother's wife, etc etc. I think we all know when we are being ungodly.
_________________
May you have Peace and blessings from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Alpha]

[soulinspector]

It's important to be practical in matters such as these. Surely Jesus told us to avoid certain things because he understood the mechanics of life and exactly how the soul will be "consumed by the lion."

Jesus said, "Fortunate is the man who knows where the brigands will enter, so that he may get up, muster his domain, and arm himself before they invade."

Masturbation is not recommended. It's detrimental to our spiritual health because it wastes the vital sexual energy, which is absolutely necessary to stabilize the various chakras of the human vehicle (the seven churches of the Apocalypse of St. John). By spreading this energy thin, we are inviting the terrible beast, Lust, to a feast.

What happens after we eat a good meal? We have more energy. More energy means more strength. The stronger a man is, the more difficult it will be to subdue him in combat. Would a wise warrior make his opponents stronger before battle?

Are you willing to accept that the desire to have an orgasm is a devil working through the human vehicle? That's the truth, whether we choose to accept it or not.

It's very easy to fornicate inside of a marriage. Just look at how many divorces there are in so-called Christian marriages. If we are constantly gratifying our own sexual desires, even inside of a monogamous relationship, we continue to feed lust, and we will not enter the kingdom.

However, sex is essential to realizing our true being. When we were told to "go forth and multiply" it was in a spiritual sense. Those who come to the light will inevitably bring others with them. It is through perfectly chaste sex with a partner devoted to the Lord's work that we will wake our Divine Mother Kundalini, Mother Mary, and give her the power to destroy the sins that have bound our souls to this world.

Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."

Free classes at [url]mysticweb.org[/url].

All the strength and courage!
_________________
Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man." -- The Gospel of Thomas

[Mujahideen]

There is the islamic point of view on this issue.

Although islamic sharia (law) is quiet on this issue, masturbation is permitted only on these circumstances.

-If you think you might commit adultery or fornification by watching porn or calling some girl over etc.

-When masturbating strictly do not think of sexual thoughts, this is just to relieve you. if you think of bad thoughts then the whole point is beaten, you've commit the sin.

So basically its to prevent you from doing the sin of adultery and fornification.
_________________
Allah is the One.

[StreetDeacon]

This was already quoted, but it's the last verse that stands out in my mind...

Matthew 5
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

.....maybe I'm wrong, but to me it seems possible that #30 could be referring to masturbation. It's talking about your hand, and at the same time, it comes right after the part telling you not to look at a woman to lust. I see no other reason why they would put something about using your hand in relation with lusting, but if you know something about #30 that I don't, then please fill me in.
_________________
In memory of my brother, may he rest in peace...

July 22, 1970 - January 4, 2004

[dereek3]

Do you feel holy when you are doing these things.
Do you think Jesus did this, would you feel comfortable telling Him you masturbate.
This seems to me to be common sense.
You think bad thoughts when you are doing this, this is not a holy practice.
Regardless if it makes you feel good.
This life is not about feeling good it is about winning lost souls.
As to some of the comments earlier about requiring scripture to tell you exactly about the question:
1 John Chapter 1
"God is light and in him there is no darkness at all."
Also anything that is not for God is against him, so tell me that masturbating is for God.
Although you may prove here that he did not specifically forbade it, he certainly did not condone it.
And I think you will have a much harder time proving that masturbating is for God.
Also, do not pick apart the words in this forum for your own good.
Know the motives of your heart, for God certainly does.
But it is ok, because all sin is forgiven, there is grace in God for all sins.
BUT JUSTIFICATION WILL NOT BE FOUND FOR THINGS OF DARKENESS!
Again in 1 John he says,"If we say we have not sinned we make Hima liar, and His word is not in us."
Thats what God has put on my heart.
_________________
Practing pentecostal, sold out and born again

[Alpha]

[dereek3]

I suggest that you give him Godly advice rather than telling him to enter into something which he will have to fight with his whole life. God offers so much peace and comfort we do not ever need to find another outlet for this.
Those are my thoughts anyways
_________________
Practing pentecostal, sold out and born again

[Tammy]

So from what I am understanding. Masturbation is a sin if you lust. When is it a sin for a 13 year old who is just learning his sexuality and also, what if you are lusting after your spouse while masturbating?????
_________________
My views are that you should walk your walk with the Lord, listen to his word and try your hardest to abide by his commandments.

[Alpha]

[blaqaztek]

[Alpha]

[blaqaztek]

thanx 4 putting me back to square one. You may as well have not replied. DUH, you should pray about it. We should all pray about our problems and confusion. That goes without saying. I am starting to feel like this strand should be closed since all we get is pointless answers and opinions. I belive the word has answers to everything. I guess none of us have been able to find this answer. Just because something isn't specifically mentioned doesn't mean God didn't think about it. As someone said earlier in this thread, God never mentioned cars. I'm sure he knew they were going to exist.

I feel like this whole thread is dancing in circles without ever offering any answer. This thread has become useless.
_________________
I'm tryin' to make my way to Heaven; you going my way?

[Alpha]

[jmc5682]

There is nothing at all wrong with masturbation. It is natural. It is safe. Is is a sin to have a nocturnal emmision? Are having dreams about sex a sin? Well, of course not, as you do not have control over your dreams. Christians believe anything that feels good is a sin. It is ok to masturbate. Furthermore, I believe Jesus masturbated. All guys masturbate. If they say they don't they are probably lying which is another sin. Masturbation does not hurt anyone else, and if done in the privacy of your own home is a great way to relieve tension and to stay healthy. It is a fact that men who masturbate lower their risk of prostate cancer. They also live longer. There is nothing in the Bible that directly says masturbation is a sin. Christians just like taking pieces of the Bible to make masturbation a perverted activity, which is certainly is not. ALL little boys masturbate. Are they going to hell? Give me a break. Live your life on Earth to the fullest. Enjoy the body that God gave you. Touch it. Don't be afraid. You will not be sent to the fires of Hell. What if there is no Heaven? Wouldn't you want to live this life on Earth to the fullest. Even if there is a Heaven. Don't you think God wants you to have the best life possible. Self gratification was made possible by our creator. I believe HE wants us to enjoy ourselves in every way, as long as we are not hurting ourselves or anyone else in the process.

[Epistle Online]

Heres something I want everyones views on. I am a penticostal preacher in SC. I have a wife. After she had our baby she was less sexually active. So now, things just aren't the way they use to be...sexually. I do everything I know how to do to live right so I have steered away from this thing and finally: well you married guys know, you have to just work it out of your wife sometimes. LOL (cannot believe I'm typing this) So here is a thought. What if you masturbated, but you think of your wife the entire time. My wife is very attractive to me, and my eyes toward no other compared to her. I have this question asked to me all the time, but I don't really have a strong point on what is and what isn't. I stay away from this act all together for its better to be safe than sorry, but what does everyone think on this? Thought I would throw this in for even more confusion.
_________________
-Epistle Online-
www.epistleonline.com

[csdragon]

I agree that the act of masterbation is not a sin. Jesus never spoke of it, and you won't find any justification and disapproval of it in the Bible. There are not too many men that can actually say they have never done it. I also feel that masterbating could cause a man to have the need to find a woman, leading to a lustful nature.

If you feel guilty about it, then maybe you are using methods that are actually sinful.

First of all, Jesus makes it clear that we that are married are not to look at a woman lustfully. Of course, God has wired men to be very visual, and we will usually look at the physical proportions of women, especially when we are not married or in a serious relationship. Many married men will also continue looking, because they are still wired that way. Jesus was not considering the casual glance that a man may give towards an attractive woman. It is just our nature that we will look at a pretty face or a well-proportioned body when in our vicinity. What Jesus was referring to was that in the man's heart, he has decided that if given the chance he would really want to have sex with her. He may even follow her and/or grab her or touch her. If the man was to continuously look at the same woman, make comments about her body, etc. Then, I would say that he is looking at her lustfully. Otherwise, it can be a casual and inocent glance, and if you claim to have never done it, then you are definitely wired differently than 99.9% of all men. Now, if you lust after someone visually, what is to keep you from taking your lust to the next step?

Here are some ideas for those who wish to continue masterbating. If you are masterbating, there is a very good chance that you are using some for of visual aid, whether porn, peeping, visualizing, etc.

So, here are some suggestions and thoughts:

Single men: 1. Visualize the image of the woman(not your neighbor's wife) you wish to be married to. You can do this through meditation. Simply close your eyes and think of an imaginary woman. Hopefully, you will receive an image that is helpful to your cause, and does not violate any lusting sins. 2. Learn to control your hormones. 3. Do not masterbate too often, because it may cause sexual disfunction problems. 4. Do not use porn. It will simply corrupt your mind. You will become lustful and addicted to it. It is simply not healthy, and will take major repentence and healing to recover from it. 5. By waiting long enough, I'm sure your hormones will allow for ejaculation without much thought process.
Married men: 1. Make a movie of you and your wife. I don't feel that you need your wife's approval to masterbate while using this or any other approved method, but you might want to tell her just so you are not hiding anything from her. 2. Think of your wife. 3. Again, you may cause dysfunction, because when masterbating, the purpose is to ejaculate. It may cause premature ejaculation when you actually make love to your wife.

Caveats that may present issues to some married men. Anyone have any good suggestions for these situations?
1. No longer attracted to wife.
2. Sexual dysfunction.
3. Impotentance.
4. Wife not interested in sex.
5. Wife is not being faithful to the marriage.

[jmc5682]

Please help me unserstand where it says in the Bible that God wants you to hate your life. That statement is upsurd. What is the point of living if you cannot enjoy it? Do you really think God wants all his followers to be miserable?

[Alpha]

[csdragon]

[Epistle Online]

The scripture you're referring to that says to hate thy own life, is not saying to actually hate it, but you should want to work for God so much that you hate your own life. Thats a strong desire and determination for his will instead of your own will.
_________________
-Epistle Online-
www.epistleonline.com

[csdragon]

[Epistle Online]

John 10:10

10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to detroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Not love the world, but love life. There is a difference. I love this precious time to serve God while here. I still want to leave as soon as the rapture happens. You said "Why would you want to leave it if you loved it?" But if the world was as perfect as I could ever imagine it being, and life was the best I could even imagine it being still: the bible says the eyes hath not seen, nor the ears heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man what God has prepared for them that love him. It's just that beautiful that no matter how much we could ever love life down here, that over there is beyond comparison.
_________________
-Epistle Online-
www.epistleonline.com

[csdragon]

It will be nearly impossible for a rich man to see heaven. God loves the world of men, but He does not want us to become attached to something material, when it is going to stop us from wanting eternal life with Him. Can you see what I am saying? Read everything that Jesus says. He doesn't say love life to the fullest.
_________________
I am an aspiring follower of Jesus. I believe in the words of Christ in the 4 Gospels of the New Testament.

[Omega]

csdragon wrote:

[csdragon7]

Matthew 5:29-30

At first it could sound very much like he is referring to masturbation, but read it again. It says "If your right hand offend thee (KJV)", or "If your right hand causes you to sin(NKJV)" It doesn't specify what the sin is. It says "if", so "if" masturbating isn't considered a sin by itself, your right hand would not cause you to sin while doing it. So, it still does not condemn the actual act of masturbating. It would if it referred to masturbating while lusting after a woman.

Since the context of 5:27-30 is committing adultery in the heart, it would appear that he means actually using your hand to commit adultery or some other act of sin. Something like, grabbing a woman in a lustful way, or how about "sexual harrassment"?
_________________
I am a follower of Jesus. Are you?

[Omega]

If you want to take your chance and regret it for all of eternity, then be my guest!

God Bless!

[csdragon]

[Epistle Online]

I don't believe that the scripture if your right hand offend thee is talking about masterbation specifically, because it also says your eye and yada yada. BUT I am with Omega on this one, better to be safe than sorry.
_________________
-Epistle Online-
www.epistleonline.com

[gerani1248]

im going to hold on to my previous statement on how i said that anything done in excess is bad....

most sane ppl will stop masturbating during thier teens while they are discovering thier sexuality.

[jjf1990]

[beads]

[Madeleine]

Eating three times a day is fine. That will keep you healthy.

However, eating in excess just for the sake of it is gluttony. This is a bad thing and will lead to a person becoming unhealthy.

Basically, most things if you do them an excessive amount are not good for you. For example, eating fruit is generally good for you. But if you ate too much of it, you'd probably end up with kidney stones or something.

Breathing in excess is called hyperventilating and that's not good for you either. I should know as I used to have a lot of panic attacks.

Kissing your wife in excess? Nah. Not unless you don't have any lips left or accidentally suffocated her in the process!
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[beads]

*blink*

Didn't actually expect someone to have actual comments on that post. It was meant purely for humorous purposes. But I see your point. Hopefully, my point (that not all things done in excess are bad for you) isn't totally lost.
_________________
“That’s the problem with science. You’ve got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder.”

[gerani]

perhaps. but can you give me an example of something that is not harmful when you do it in excess? like love too much? that becomes an unhealthy obsession.

i think everythign needs to be in an balance.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[beads]

I don't think I could ever love my wife too much. I don't think I could ever love or praise God too much. In and of themselves, those things are not harmful if you do them too much.

Granted, if all I do in my life is those things, that will obviously take away from other things that are needful for me to do (like eat and sleep and work), and if that's the argument you want to make then I guess you're right.
_________________
“That’s the problem with science. You’ve got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder.”

[Madeleine]

Hehe. Sorry Beads, I knew you didn't think anyone would post seriously, just thought I'd try and shed a bit more light on Gerani's statement.

But seeing both sides, I would say that most things could potentially be bad for you if done in excess.

Loving someone too much can be painful, but only if they don't love you back. Seeing as God will always love you back, you can never love Him too much!
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[beads]

Yeah, you're probably right. Oh well, my poor attempt at humor caused more trouble than it was worth!

All of this is kind of off topic anyway. The point is whether or not masturbating is a sin, not if anything done in excess is a sin.

My personal opinion is this: There are lots of things that are not expressly forbidden in the Bible, however, the principles of the Bible are a good guide to follow in these so-called "grey areas." One principle that pops into my mind is "Abstain from all appearance of evil." My guess would be that the majority of masterbation is done with some kind of lust involved, most of the time for a complete stranger. The whole "I'm thinking about my spouse the whole time" argument just doesn't fly with me. If you're thinking about your spouse, why wouldn't you want to just actually have sex with them instead of just masterbating? They're not available? Have some self-control, then. That's one of the fruits of the Spirit. Even if you are just trying to think of your spouse the whole time, the devil is pretty tricky, and I bet he'll try to throw into your mind an image of someone who is not your spouse, at which point you're either going to keep going while you're thinking about that other person (sinful lust), or you're going to stop.... and how many times do you think anybody stops before they're done?

Getting back to the "abstain from all appearance of evil" idea...... Since the majority of masterbation is done while lusting after someone who is not your spouse, it's pretty likely that if someone sees someone else masterbating, they're going to think that they're doing it with someone who is not their spouse on their mind. Thus, it appears that they are committing adultery (according to Jesus - "if anyone thinks on a woman to lust after her, he has committed adultery"). And don't even think about saying "But nobody's ever seen me do it." Last time I checked, God was still omni-present.
_________________
“That’s the problem with science. You’ve got a bunch of empiricists trying to describe things of unimaginable wonder.”

[Madeleine]

I have to agree with you. It took me a long time to abandon lust, but sure enough, once I realised that it was really wrong and had to stop, God helped me and now I am much more able to get rid of the thoughts that Satan puts into my head.

Although the Bible does not say that this act in itself is wrong, the lust involved is equated with adultery. I do think it would be possible for someone to think about their spouse the whole time, but really they may as well just come together as one flesh, just as God intended them to.

However, I do realise that every now and then, most people over the age of about 14 need to 'relieve tension' every now and then. What I am talking about is when a person starts getting ridiculous biological urges. The best thing to do about this is to ask God to get rid of them. However, it should be possible if you reach such a stage you can't cope with it anymore to 'relieve yourself' without any visualisation or lust at all. This could actually stop you from lusting as it would get rid of the urges.

One question: Supposing the married couple don't agree with artificial contraception and wish to avoid having children? Do you think it would be wrong for such a couple to engage in other sexual acts?
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[beads]

[Madeleine]

Yeah, sorry that was going off the point again. Just interested to see what you thought
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[gerani]

exactly, but then theres the point of how when a person masturbates, how he or she gets off.

some people use porn. other people fantasize. its too much i think. masturbating as an adolescent exploring his/her body is aokay. but beyond that, is not. i mean, masturbating 4 tiems a day is unhealthy. because it takes time away that you could be spending with family or friends, (or worshippin God). perhaps a couple times a week...which is what i do.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[webmaster]

Psychologists know that regularly pairing anything with pleasurable sensations will powerfully shape one’s response to whatever those sensations are paired with. When we masturbate we are unavoidably conditioning our sexual response. We are bonding the unique and intense pleasure of sexual feelings with whatever we are thinking of at that critical time. The sexual and spiritual implications of self-stimulation can therefore be expected to vary according to what one thinks of when sexually arousing oneself. There are many possibilities. Whilst sexually pleasuring or satisfying yourself you could focus your thoughts on:

* A real person you are not married to
* An imaginary person
* Spiritual things
* Neutral things
* Your own body
* (If you are married) your real marriage partner.




Towards a Christian View of Sexual Self-Stimulation
http://www.net-burst.net/sexuality/masturbation.htm

[kesuramoni]

[faithman]

The trick is to love her with the love God has given you, then it is pure love, and man and women becomes one in Christ. The love of God will get us through the tuff times, because it ain't based of the reciever, but the goodness of the giver. I love because of the gift of God's love birthed in my heart. That is why the marrage bed is to be held sacrid. it is where two believers share their faith in Christ in an most intamate may. the gift of God to that expression of intamacy is a life, as the two become one flesh in the faces of their children.
_________________
A secure, King James toting, Child of God. King and Priest. ambassador of Heaven. Washed in the blood of Jesus. Son with power, saint of God. I have been justified in Spirit, am being sanctified in my soul, and have an earnest hope of being glorified in body at the resurrection. I confess before God and man that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, virgin born, raised from the dead, and the Lord of my life.

[Old Blue]

Masturbation is fine, and is indulged in by almost all normal individuals, male and female. It's just like using the bathroom. Most every body does it, but not everybody likes to admit it. But it is a good way to relieve sexual tension besides feeling good.

There are pretty much two groups of people regarding this topic. Those that admit to masturbating, and those that lie about it.

So, go masturbate!
_________________
Woof! Woof!

[webmaster]

The M word, playing with yourself, releasing sexual tension, obtaining sexual relief, autoeroticism, solitary sex, self abuse – call it what you will, we cannot squirm away from the fact that masturbation is sexual.
http://www.net-burst.net/sexuality/masturbate.htm

[gerani]

where do we hold our fears? mostly in the genitals. when we come, we release these fears, and stresses of daily life. when we come, we are in touch with our inside, our soul, a spiritual bliss as well as a physicall one. when we have sex or masturbate, we see a glimpse of God.

am i correct?
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[CSMKTexan]

I just learned a valueble lesson today. I asked the Lord about mastrubation, and I fell that I got my answer about it. What my point is, is to ask god about it. There is so much controversy about this issuse, that its really hard to tell what is ok to do. Dont take a side on this issue from what one person or another says about it, but ask god, and you should get your answer, in a way that is to your understanding. This is what I think, just wanted to share.

[Paul Mccluskey]

Masturbation is a sin and one I think many Christians indulge in. It is a sin, in my opinon because during this act almost certainly the person will have in his or mind an image or person who may be married, or the person may well be married him/her self, therefor committing adultery.
_________________
Fundamentalist, though a friendly one!

[Paul Mccluskey]

[Madeleine]

So is it a sin for an unmarried person to be thinking about another unmarried person in a sexual manner? I've been having this conversation with some people on another forum, there are a lot of different views on it.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[gerani]

lemme ask you this? is it wrong to masturbate to a cartoon? or a painting (not of a specific person)
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Madeleine]

I've no idea to be honest....

I find the idea of masturbating over a cartoon somewhat strange... If the cartoon was based on a real person, then it probably would be a sin because it would be lusting after someone. But if it was an entirely fictional character? Interesting question. Most people probably haven't considered masturbating over a cartoon, so it probably wouldn't affect that many people anyway.

To be honest, you'd probably be more likely to get images of real people popping into your head, even if you were looking at a cartoon character.

I get the impression God would probably rather people didn't do it in case other images started popping into your head causing you to lust.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[newseed]

Could masturbating over an image (such as a cartoon) be considered idolatry? If so, then two Commandments are broken...one of idolatry and the other for lusting after the image.

No matter how you look at it, for those that do not heed to the warnings of Christ are just trying to justify sin.

For The Harvest,
Eddie
_________________
*******************************
Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
-
John 14:7-9 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. From now on, you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'

[gerani]

"I get the impression God would probably rather people didn't do it in case other images started popping into your head causing you to lust."

ive mastrubated to manga and never had people come up. seriously.

its not idolotory either, because ur are not worshipping a cartoon on an alter or anything.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Pergio Maximus]

[Madeleine]

I'm confused. It sounds like you're saying that masturbation is a sin simply because it's an action.

Aaah yes, the Mosaic laws referring to cleanliness.

Anyone who discharged any bodily fluid was considered unclean. This does not necessarily mean that because they were sent out of camp for being unclean that it was actually a state of sin. If that were the case then having a period would be sinful as well.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[Pergio Maximus]

[Madeleine]

I have a small problem with this. Man is naturally fallible, but I don't believe that man is naturally evil. I think evil is a choice.

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

a·dul·ter·y n. pl. a·dul·ter·ies
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.

This makes it fairly clear. If you are married and you think about someone else sexually, you are committing adultery in your heart. Likewise, if you think about someone who is married to someone else in a sexual manner, you are also committing adultery and coveting someone else's husband/wife.

However, where does the Bible say that sexual desire in itself is evil?
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[newseed]

Peace all,

Let's add a little bit more clarification from the Bible Encyclopeda:

[gerani]

sin is a purposeful action.

i can see how you would say that masturbating is a sin. but hello, wet dreams, monthly periods? how is that a voluntary sin? i am disobeying God because of my period? wow, okay...? someone explain this line of htinking.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Madeleine]

Ah no, I think you got a little bit mixed up here Gerani...

Anyone who discharges bodily fluid is unclean, according to the Old Testament. This means that a woman is unclean during her period... well it's not too bad now we have sanitary protection, but I imagine it probably got quite messy in those days. This would also mean that if a boy has a wet dream or bleeds a lot for some reason, he is unclean too. Being unclean is not necessarily sinful, but back in those days you weren't supposed to go to the temple or whatever if you were unclean for any reason.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[gerani]

um, wet dreams arent messy at all. its called taking a bath...lol.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Li Qin]

Just to add to the mix.... What about masturbating someone else (I suppose some would see it as an alternitive to sex)? I recently discoverd that one of my friends is involved in doing this with her boyfriend and I have no idea what to say to her or how to confront her about it. I mean, it's one thing to show her from the Bible why masturbation is wrong (or least not a good idea), but what about when she's doing it to her boyfriend? Would that classify as something else? (Maybe I'm just too sheltered and don't know that this has another name...) Is it more under the fornication heading? I'd like to hear your opinions.

--Li Qin

[Chrysoprasus]

[gerani]

haha. if you cannot explain to me how masturbating to manga is a sin then dont say thats indecent. if you arent aware, you are on a thread entitled Masturbation. there is bound to be indecency. do you even know what manga is? lol.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Ladybuilder]

Hi Gerani,

I would like to tell you that masturbating to mana is a paraphilia, which is an abnormal attraction...pedophiles are in this category. This is why most people find your idea to be disturbing.

So, in turn, this would mean that the person masturbating to mana would have a sexual dysfunction.

And yes, any bible reader will probably know what mana is.

In the eyes of the "world," I would have to say that masturbation is not wrong. Although, masturbation is "normal" and changes from person to person and religion to religion if it is right or wrong. If our Father lies on your heart that it is wrong, well then, it is wrong for you.

Pray about it and listen to what He tells you.

Note: Be careful not to lust, however, for the King of all kings said it was wrong, therefore it is wrong for His followers. So, try not to lust purposely for things just to be able to masturbate. (example: fantasy, pictures)

Also: I will never understand fully of a males feeling towards sex, so, I feel I am not at liberty to say you can or cannot.

Hope this helps.
_________________
I'm a bodybuilder (hence the name LadyBuilder), but no matter how strong or fast I am; I am nothing without the Lord Jesus!

[Ladybuilder]

This may have been mentioned, but I would like to point out a great way of releasing sexual tension. Workout. When you feel the tension to where it is becoming overwhelming go for a run...or bench a couple hundred pounds (or whatever you are comfortable doing).

But like I said, I am a woman, but bodybuilders have to refrain from sex during competition, so, I figure it must relieve tension to lift as well.

Because the competitors refrain from sex, so that they may use all their energy for lifting. It makes sense to me. Give it a shot!
_________________
I'm a bodybuilder (hence the name LadyBuilder), but no matter how strong or fast I am; I am nothing without the Lord Jesus!

[On My Way]

[gerani]

sure, use manga or hentai. but they arent real people. therefore you arent exactly lusting after people.

"And yes, any bible reader will probably know what mana is. "

its manGa not mana...


ya, good for you.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Chrysoprasus]

[On My Way]

So is lust only about people or can you lust for objects and things and such?

I personaly find hentai degrading to women now (when drawn about women) and un-realistic and in my past I had seen alot of it. I only asked about it because it would seem to me that it would be an object and then it could be considered a sin if we can lust for objects

I found it easier to quit and that way I do not have to worry about if it is a sin or not.

[gerani]

... ........ ........ ......... ........ ...... ...........
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Narky_McDark]

You can't really say that hantai is like pedeophillia. a lot of people have wierd sexual ideas in their heads. And they really can be anything. fetishes for example. They can be as abscure as plushies and balloons to voraphillia and having fur.
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[gerani]

ya, then anything can become that way. a pole, a chair, a sofa.

there is no way to label anything as evil or good. they are all just objects...

course, i dont think hentai and yaoi have moral values, they are just amoral.
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[God'schild]

the scripture says that which is not of faith is sin.

Everything a person does, who does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, is sin.

If you do not have faith in Christ, pulling your pud is the least of your problems.
_________________
hate religion, love jesus www.gotel.org

[Narky_McDark]

Ok so if you're a really nice guy... whou wouldn't harm the fine hairs on a flies back... and you go arround helping starving african children etc... and you haven't done anything remotely 'wrong' in your entier life... but you're an atheist then you are a sinner ?
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[God'schild]

You got it!!!! It ain't about what you do, put about who you are. Jesus said you must be born again.
_________________
hate religion, love jesus www.gotel.org

[gerani]

"Ok so if you're a really nice guy... whou wouldn't harm the fine hairs on a flies back... and you go arround helping starving african children etc... and you haven't done anything remotely 'wrong' in your entier life... but you're an atheist then you are a sinner ?"

one of things i can never understand about christianity. i mean, christian FUNDAMENTALISTS believe, that people like anne frank go to hell.

and they say that innocent babeis (who are born with original sin) go to hell, or the catholics believe they drift off to limbo, a place were is not heaven, nor hell, for EVER.

okay...? that makes sense..
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[God'schild]

Romans 14:
14) ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


2 Corinthians:
3) But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
(4) In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Corinthians 2:
14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 14:
6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John3:
5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Romans 10:
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
(17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
_________________
hate religion, love jesus www.gotel.org

[gerani]

in otherwords, you believe anne frank is burning in hell.

sigh....
_________________


Paint my Face in your magazines,
Make it look wider than it seems,
Paint me over with your dreams,
Shove away my ethnicity.

[Madeleine]

Come on guys, it's not for us to try and second-guess God's judgement. Whatever God's judgement is, let us rest assured that it will be fair.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[Narky_McDark]

"It ain't about what you do, put about who you are." What you do makes you who you are... much more so than what you believe in i think.
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[God'schild]

[Narky_McDark]

Eating mice wouldn't make you a cat no... but that isn't who you are that's what you are. If you greet an old lady by saying 'good morning would you care for a truffle?' then you are a bit patronising but generally ok. But if you greet her by stealing her walking stick and using it to beat her to death then you will be viewed as a complete chav.
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[mike england]

how true this is:
John3
5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

[Narky_McDark]

Who was John?
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[God'schild]

[Narky_McDark]

ok.
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[metatron2]

It's only a sin if you don't cum!
_________________
I am an ex church employee, primarily Roman Catholic and held an office of merit. I opted out of the church a while ago and am not sure why

[Narky_McDark]

Well now im confused. I thought the whole 'sinfulness' of masturbation was that people waste their loads (if you'll pardon the expression)... meaning it'd be ok if you didn't come... hmm... or are you joking? Can never tell...
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[On My Way]

The sin is how you get to the point of release not the release itself

Hope that helps

[metatron2]

Without sin there will be no church, it is a never ending cycle of self perpetuating business. Masturbation which results in no release is a form of sado masochism and again supposedly wrong. Who is to say that it can't be performed? Jesus was never mentioned as masturbating in the bible or not, if he had, do you think it would have been printed. No ... so the whole pretext of touching yourself is "a sin" just to err on the side of caution from the churches doctrine and to keep their monies rolling in. Week after week confessions are heard, give some money, do a penance, you are forgiven. Many sinners came to the church each week, time after time having commited the same sin and were duly forgiven, utter bullshit. It was a licence for them to actually sin knowing they could do what they wanted and would be forgiven and the church would be carry on receiving donations and money, thus you pay for your sins. It's a very good business model.
_________________
I am an ex church employee, primarily Roman Catholic and held an office of merit. I opted out of the church a while ago and am not sure why

[Madeleine]

Without sin, Jesus' sacrifice wouldn't have been necessary and Christianity wouldn't exist at all.

The sin in masturbation comes from lust. The Bible doesn't say anything about the act of masturbation itself. However, if you imagine someone or something and masturbate, it can become adultery or possibly a form of idolatry.

It is my opinion that there is one circumstance under which masturbation is not sinful (and this is just an opinion). That is where masturbation is simply for the release of built-up tension. In this circumstance, you have not deliberately built up sexual urges, but they have come along on their own. I believe that in this instance, it is ok to get rid of that tension as long as you aren't committing adultery or idolatry in the process. In fact, I think this course of action may be preferable because otherwise those urges are likely to cause you to have adulterous thoughts.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[Freac]

One thing that people haven't talked about is use of vibrators. Before I thought masturbation was wrong I used a vibrator, and was able to "release" easily, and without having to use any pics or anything to excite myself.

Any opinions on using a vibrator, is that any more wrong?

P.S. I have stopped using it since I saw this, FYI.

[Helix]

I usually hang around the Science, Creation and Evolution forum, but I will make an exception now.

You are all debating whether or not masturbation is 'right' or 'wrong' , correct?

I just read that the bible doesn't mention it as a sin, but ' if you imagine someone or something and masturbate, it can become adultery or possibly a form of idolatry. '

Oh no!

Adultery: "Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse."
Idolatry:
"1. Worship of idols.
2. Blind or excessive devotion to something."

(Source:
http://dictionary.reference.com/ )

Neither of these events is happening. So what's the problem?

I think you are interpreting out of context.

------
BTW: Do you always assume that what is told to you is the truth or do you actually ask yourself 'WHY am I supposed to believe this?'
_________________



"All that I think is that you will excite anger, and that anger so completely blinds every one that your arguments would have no chance of influencing those who are already opposed to our views." Charles Darwin to Haeckel, 1867

[On My Way]

Hello Helix

[Helix]

Ok, why not.

I've been trying to explain human behaviour in evolutionary terms, on the "science, creation & evolution" part of this forum. To read this in full detail, go to the 'the Morality and evolutionism' thread on that part of the forum.

-------

There is one thing that all life forms have in common: They all want to reproduce. All plants, all animals, all fungi, they all have one goal in life, and that is to have offspring. There are quite some animals that DIE after or during the sex. Some species of octopus will guard their eggs until they starve to death, and several species of (male) spiders die while fertilising a female, because they are eaten. Their bodies are quite nutricious to the female, and he indirectly helps to raise the kids (by being food for the pregnant female).

All animals have this goal, but what about us? We are a species of animal too. Linnaeus (1707-1778) gave all known animals a latin name (scientific name). He was a creationist, but that is not very surprising: The Theory of Evolution did not yet exist in his time. The name for human is Homo sapiens sapiens and we are a species of animal, just like the rest of the animal kingdom.

We can detect the same urges and instincts in humans as in other animals. We too want to reproduce. Men are fascinated with women (the only reason porn exists) and women are always looking for the perfect man (the only reason boy band exist ).

There is one little problem: If a woman want to have a child, she will be pregnant for 9 months and then she'll be raising the child for another 20 years (give or take a few years). Men on the other hand could impregnate several women on one day if he needed. Men can be less picky when it comes to partners, because he could make several women pregnant.

The goal of life forms is to reproduce. Men could hypothetically make several women pregnant on 1 day. Women have an evolutionary obligation to pick their mate carefully: They'll be carrying the child for 9 months, so she needs to make sure that he doesn't leave her. Women go for quality (in a partner), while men go for quantity: as much women as possible.

Dating is actually nothing more than finding a compromis between quality and quantity. The girl will search for clues that he is a successful candidate and the man will look for reasons why she is better than all the other potential mates.

Evolution needs animals (including us) to reproduce. If no-one did it, life would die out in one generation. (Duh!). So we have an inborn urge to reproduce. The release of hormones during puberty signals that the body is ready to reproduce. We usually postpone reproduction until we have finished our schools. Having a good job will only benefit the new born child, so it is in your best interest to finish your school first.

The urge will start with puberty. The average age of people during the Middle Ages was about 20/30 years old. It was quite necessary to have children when they were young. Our average age is 70/80 years. We can actually PLAN our children. We have however the instinctal urges.

The goal of our genes is to make copies of itself, and the only way to do this is by having a child. Your body 'pushes'' you in the right direction by making you feel attracted to the other sex. You start to look for 'hints' that you are considered a good candidate.

The evolutionary urge to reproduce is quite a strong one. We have some basic urges: Eating, drinking, breathing and going to the bathroom. These are VITAL things.
The urge to reproduce is not VITAL (means you do not die if you don't reproduce), but it is as important as these other things. Eating, drinking etc. are important to keep your body alive, but having sex keeps your SPECIES live. And this is in the end the most important drive, keeping your species (=keeping sets of genes that are almost the same as yours) alive.

Masturbation is a way to releave yourself of this urge. Mentally we are nothing more than primitive hunter-gatherers. We are scared of animals that could hurt us. The instinctal fear of spiders and snakes is an inborn fear that has helped our species survive for millions of years.
We obey to the same instincts as animals, with the exception that we can perform a 'second opinion' on our instinct by using our conscience. Our conscience is nothing more than a cerebreal mechanism to judge instincts. It is quite an interesting ability when you think about it. And it has proved its worth: Prett much every member of our species now has this ability.

Our body does not tell us to 'make babies' it tells you to have an orgasm. The result of man=>woman=>orgasm is usually pregnancy, which is good for evolution (yes, you can die happy now, knowing that copies of your genes will be passed on tho the next generation.)

Apparently, the orgasm is enough to 'fool' you body into 'thinking' it has done its job. You have not produced offspring, but your body interprets ejaculation as "having reached your goal, thus happy happy, joy joy".

Your body will basically try one thing, and that is to get you laid. It will try this with chemical warfare: Hormones are released INSIDE your head and there is nothing you can do about it.

Reaching an organsm (talking to both male and female readers here) will get you a rest from those infernal hormones and you will notice that it actually feels very good. Why anyone would think its a sin, I don't know. It's like saying that enjoying a good meal is a sin. You are just following an instinct, aren't you?

I think that we evolved this ability, others think it was god who gave us these feelings. But if god gave us these feelings, why would he forbid them? That would be quite sadistic. That's like putting a hungry man in a room full of food and telling him that he'll be punished for all eternity if he even thinks about eating the food.

Masturbation is a natural bodily function. We should take an example of our cats and dogs. They are not bothered by pointless feelings of shame that are induced by our social climate. The claim that it is 'morally wrong' doesn't hold either. Morality is a very subjective concept. It means something different for every person.

My personal way of looking at it is that moral behaviour is behaviour that benefits our society. It is a result of being a social animal. As long as our behaviour does not harm society, I don't see anything wrong with it, and it is that yardstick that I use to measure things by.

---------
_________________



"All that I think is that you will excite anger, and that anger so completely blinds every one that your arguments would have no chance of influencing those who are already opposed to our views." Charles Darwin to Haeckel, 1867

[Madeleine]

That's an interesting post, Helix. I must say if I weren't a Christian I'd more than likely be inclined to agree with you.

If I were living a few hundred years ago, the problem wouldn't be so relevant because back then, people were married as soon as they had the ability to reproduce (pretty much). However, I must resist the temptation to try and use that as an excuse!
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[Trey]

I find this argument a lot, and I will use a few points to verify this statement..

Masturbating is not a sin.

However, there are some things that go along with masturbating that can lead to sin. The most obvious being Lust. You lust in your heart, you sin.. it's that simple. Masturbation can bring you closer to lust, or help you against it. It is possible to masturbate without lusting, however, this can be harder for some moreso than others.

The second thing is addiction. If you feel as if you absolutely cannot continue your life without masturbating, this is a problem. Discipline is key.

Now get this. When somebody tickles you, you laugh, right? Ever try tickeling yourself? It's amazing God even allows us to bring ourselves to orgasm. There is a reason God allows us to masturbate, and this is to FIGHT lust, NOT to give into it.

When I hear the Onan argument, sometimes I wonder... I believe what is being said about Onan is QUITE clear. In the old testament, it was expected of a man's brother to carry on his bloodline should he die before a child was concieved. The REASON Onan was withdrawing was because if he failed to impregnate his brother's wife, he would have to have sex again. Onan was abusing this situation with his brother's wife, using her for his own gain. This is a terrible sin. It was not the spilling of seed that earned him punishment, it was lust and taking advantage of his dead brother's wife's body.

Semen is completely built up in a man every 72 hours. It must be released. This can occur through wet dreams, but they can lead to more lust than masturbation can, to the inexperienced. In a wet dream, you are virtualy LIVING a sexual fantasy that you've buried in your mind!

The ONLY argument against masturbation that I feel is even remotely valid is that God states that idleness leads to sin, and you generaly only masturbate when you're idle.

Just remember when you masturbate: Keep your eyes open, and shift them so you dont focus on any one thing. It may take longer, but achieving an orgasm without sinning is worth it: Dont fantasise.

My personal opinion on how often this should be done to curb lust without becoming addicted is to wait until you absolutely cannot hold it in any longer before you do it.

[On My Way]

Hello Trey

welcome to the forum

[Madeleine]

Whichever way you look at it, Onan had agreed to take his brother's wife and raise an heir for his brother. In withdrawing, he disobeyed God directly and therefore, God took his life. There are plenty of instances where God has killed a person for their disobedience.

I agree that it is possible to masturbate without lust- and without really thinking about what you're doing. It's not particularly enjoyable and the only point is really to provide relief. However, it requires quite a disciplined mind to be able to stop lustful thoughts from creeping in- and it's usually lust that causes people to masturbate in the first place, although sometimes it's just your hormones going wild.
_________________
"Don't be fooled by the gash in his side... 'cause we know that Jesus is alive!"

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The biggest drawback I had when I masturbated was that I used to feel guilty about it. When I realized it was absolutely normal and nothing to be ashamed about, things have been a lot better since. In fact, it really helps stress levels, especially when you're bogged down with projects and papers that are due. Nothing like a 10 minute masturbation session to help calm your nerves. However, it helps to have kleenexes readily available.

[Narky_McDark]

lol . excellently put
_________________
"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not eat pork. Im sorry.. what was that last one?? don't eat pork. God has spoken. Is that the word of God or is it just pigs trying to outsmart everybody?"

[The Cleric]

What if you masturbate while thinking about the Rapture? Would that be sinning?
_________________
Maybe later, I'll feel like it.

[Aburaees]

[The Cleric]

[Aburaees]

[upsidedown]

What if you think of a boy as you masterbate????????

[On My Way]

[FightingDreamer]

ok guys i really need some help here because i am really confused...

first of all

What is bad about masturbation? the fact that you are thinking about somebody you desire or the action itself...

And some people say that its a sin because its wasting of the seed or something? where is it stated in the Bible?

WHAT IF

for example you saw something very arousing and you are really tempted to masturbathe. Then how bout just get it over with? Just masturbathe but No dont think about the arousing thing just think about other things and sooner you will be finished... Is that a sin? It didnt commit lust technically since he did nto think of anything lustful while masturbathing. Now that your finished masturbathing... you wont get tempted anymore since its over... my question is... IS THIS A SIN?

[FightingDreamer]

[FightingDreamer]

[Aineo]

Leviticus 15:16-18

16'Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening. 17'As for any garment or any leather on which there is seminal emission, it shall be washed with water and be unclean until evening. 18'If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening. NAS

I think the above should answer your question. Since God does not require a sin sacrifice for a seminal emission then how can God view this as sin?
_________________

[Geshtinnanna]

[FightingDreamer]

my belief is... Masturbation is not a sun but Because you are comitting lust... And it doesnt say in the 10 commandments not to waste your seed or anything... right ... ?

[Aineo]

[Geshtinnanna]

Ok, then I ask: Is masturbation a sin? Because I would then think it's not. A man and a woman need to know how their bodies work. They also need to love themselves and their bodies before they let someone else do it. So I would think masturbation be a good thing.
_________________
I smell poop. Stop typing crap!

[Aineo]

[Geshtinnanna]

[FightingDreamer]

ok im just curious... i am not addicted to masturbation. So may i ask for example if you are being tempted. Is it ok to masturbathe witihout fantasizing to just get it over with and prevent further temptation?

[Aineo]

[FightingDreamer]

[Aineo]

It is bad (sin) when immoral thoughts go with the act.
_________________

[DekarTyphon]

So what you're saying is it's fine as long as we're thinking of pwning Mary rather than Jessica Alba? Sold!

[Aineo]

[JEL64]

Eh, masturbation is really only "sinful" if it's part of your religion I guess, but I personally don't find masturbating terrible, because it's natural and quite healthy from what I've heard. It can also keep you from cheating on your lover if you're lusting someone else. Sorry if I'm being open minded and positive, but it's just my thoughts on the subject.

[On My Way]

[OriginOfSin]

This might help

http://www.youthspecialties.com/articles/topics/sexuality/masturbation.php

I'm still a noob so don't have anything to contribute, but i'm cyphoning off others research on the net.

SO if i can keep my mind totally clear of any thoughts/images (Which i have mentally trained myself to do) it's not a sin? SO FAR to my understanding it;s a sin because of lust looking at women and thinking sexy thoughts about them, and adultery of the mind.

And also, every now and then 'images' creep into my mind, but just for a split second, it's ok if i push them out of my head right? It's only a sin if i willfully keep the fantasy going right? Someone help i've been dwelling on this for a few hours.

[Aineo]

[OriginOfSin]

Yay ^^ im still saved! Is it a sin ( i have seen this asked before somewhere here) to look at non real images of people? like hentai >.<?

[Aineo]

Porn is porn, regardless of how the subject is portrayed. Also, we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not by works.
_________________

[OriginOfSin]

Well NOW i have faith in him, O.o so ok i'm good. ^.^' i don't quite get that, so we have believing in jesus and that's what saves us?

SO we're not saved by things we do?

[Aineo]

Have you read the Bible?
_________________

[OriginOfSin]

http://www.newjerusalem.com/bepure.htm

That might help.

[OriginOfSin]

[Aineo]

Since this is not a Catholic message board, linking to a Catholic site where the Bible is ignored is counter productive.

I would not say you are an idiot, just uniformed.
_________________

[Alpha]

Razor,

We are saved by faith, but faith without works is dead (James 2:26). So, we are not saved by our works, but because we are saved, we do good works. And the good works we are doing are motivated by God's Spirit, not by our flesh or our own efforts to look good or religious.

It is good that you start reading your Bible and not rely on man made traditions. Don't be offended though. This is something all of us had to learn.

[OriginOfSin]

[Aineo]

[OriginOfSin]

O.o

i do good things now, and even if i dont i stopped doing bad things, not totally of course. I made the most progress giving up swearing so far though. i thought it'd be alot harder. I honestly didn't think i'd have the heart to do it, but i'm amazed at how my need to swear when someone makes me angry, or i hurt myself haver dissapeared, now i'm mostly talking with good language.

Also i can't remember the last time i hit one of my friends for making me angry (not in the face or anything, but enough to hurt them)

p.s. a link i found to help, if it's totally irrelevant i apologize in adance.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba3.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba5.htm

[Alpha]

[OriginOfSin]

In that case, from now on i will make myself stop caring about myself, and help other people (that may sound strange me making myself want to do something, but it'll happen ^^)

[Curtis]

While it is important for Christians not to sin so that Grace may abound, we need to make sure we are fully accepting of God’s Grace. In this I believe that legalism, even when I based it on the truth as it relates to a particular act or belief, produces within me the works of the flesh. Yet even then I have found that it is rare that the truth on which I am basing a legalist belief is entirely true. That produces even more works of the flesh because then I am fighting against God. (adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like.)

To make matter worse I usually try to convince others to believe the same way. In doing so I set them up to stumble. Believing myself to be a crusader for good I actually help the works of the flesh to be manifested in the lives of others. Perhaps they will abandon their faith, perhaps they will fall into the hands of those whom will take advantage of their inability to live up to their own legalistic standards, perhaps I will help them live double lives.

So how can I tell if I am living in God’s Grace, if I am using the discernment of Holy Spirit, or if I am living my live according to legalistic beliefs? Well in addition to digging into the Bible with an openness to the Spirit, I find that I need to honestly look at my life and my beliefs and ask the Holy Spirit, “In my dealings with God, myself, and others, do I have Fruit of the Spirit growing in my life, or is the result of my dealings with God, myself, and others in this matter the works of the flesh?”

Within the belief that one should only experience physical sexual release within a marital relationship, and that the relieving of oneself, on one’s own, is wrong. I spent 20 years claiming to have, but more times than not lacking the Fruit of the Spirit in dealing with God, myself, and others, including some very bad behavior within my marriages. Yes I said marriages. Therein my focus in my first and much of my second marriage was on the wicked behavior of my wife, for not meeting my physical needs, causing me to lust. Yet now I know that regardless of their being right or wrong, the real question I should have been concerned about was my Spiritual condition.

During this time I worried about what my lust said about me as a Christian? What would its discovery do to the image people had of me? And why hadn’t God delivered me? At times my shame was so great I wanted to die or mutilate myself. I thank God I did not act upon those feelings. I now realize that part of the problem was that I did not understand the difference between God given desires and lustful ones.

As one who once was addicted to Pornography secret lusts, I have now been free from those things for seven years. Praise God. I have seen the fruit of the Spirit Grow in my life, in relationship to my relationship with God, myself, and others, especially my wife. In this I believe it is wrong if, in the relieving of oneself, one denies using their sexual energy in the pleasing of their spouse, however I have come to believe that it is not wrong to relieve oneself thinking about a hoped for intimate relationship. Therein I do not think it is lust for those whom are not married to relieve themselves thinking about a hoped for intimate relationship, provided they are not lusting after a particular individual. After all besides procreation I believe bonding is the reason men have such strong sexual drives, therefore hoping and thinking about the pleasures of being intimate with a woman would be godly.

I shouldn’t steal a food, I shouldn’t stuff my body with food, I shouldn’t live for food, I shouldn’t lust after my neighbors food. But am I sinning because I think about how good it is to eat? Am I lusting because I am thinking about a hoped for sexual relationship. Telling a person they can’t eat puts them in a fight against the way God made them, and it opens them up to all shorts of temptations, whereby foods that would otherwise not be so appealing become appealing. Why are so many pastors addicted to pornography? Why are so many young Christian boys sexually abused by apparently godly individual who talk good theology? Why are Christians boys and girls, men and women having sex outside of marriage? Sin, yes, but could it be that it is because we have accepted and propagated a legalistic lie, a stumbling block?

Could I be wrong? Yes. Yet as one who was addicted to lusting and pornography, and who while having been married for some 20 years now and is NOT experiencing an ongoing fulfilling sexual relationship with his wife, do to issue I want to help my wife overcome because I love her and treasure her as a blessing, the peace and joy I have experienced over the past seven years of my being free from those lusts have been wonderful. While hoping for a more intimate sexual relationship with my wide I have learned to be content in having to relieve myself sexually.

For those men addicted to pornography please fight the lust, not the need for release. Just remember that one of the reasons God gave you your sexual need is that of your bonding with your wife, even if you are not yet married keep that your desire. True sexual satisfaction will not be found in pornography, you can imagine that they want you but they don’t, nor will it my found in your desiring of any other kind of sexual relationship.

Please forgive any misspelling and poor wording,

In His Grace,

Curtis

As I mentioned before, I could be wrong, therefore if you are a fairly young man, who is not in a satisfying sexual relationship, and who had an addiction problem with sexual lust, yet has not habitually lusted over the last seven years, and who therefore hasn’t had to relieve yourself at all sexually over the past 7 years, please let me know how you did it. Ok lets’ make it 6 years, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, do I hear 6 months? Otherwise please consider my words.