Muslim Denominations

Nickatwarwick · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 09:59 am Post subject: Muslim Denominations

Hi there,
What with all the trouble in Iraq being plastered all over the media, I've started to wonder about the different denominations of Muslims, Sunni, Shiite etc. I've always known they existed, but have never found out what the differences between them are. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Thanks

Nick

Bushmaster · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:37 am Post subject:

Let's start with a list; please muslim friends continue where I leave off...

1. Sunni
2. Shi'ite
3. Wahabbi
4. Sufi
5. Ahmaddi
6. .... (you go ahead, gotta leave, will be back)
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littleshepard · Preacher Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 145

Well I know about the first two, but what do the other three believe?
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newseed · Preacher Joined: 07 Apr 2004 Posts: 1040 Location: Florida

The Zaydis
The Ismailis
The Twelvers

Not sure about their history or if they even exist today at all.
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Psalm 118:8 "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
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John 14:7-9 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. From now on, you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'

oneGOD · Preacher Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 565

All sects except Sunnis, Shi'ites, Sufis, and Wahabbis have their own prophet and their own writings. Sunnis ,Wahabbis, and Sufis are basically the same. The same Quran. Some of the differences between the Sunnis and the shi'ites is that Shi'ites believe in the 12 Imams ,they differ on political issues,and some reject the hadiths.
Wahabbis are mostly found in Saudi Arabia, they follow a more strict Islam close to this of those in Afghanestan (Taliban).
Sufis is not really that distinct but the other sects that came out of it made it known, such as those who believe that getting drunk in love of God and some stuff.
Other sects have their own so called prophets.

webmaster · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 09:23 pm Post subject:

Can we please get more detail? I think it would be interesting. I use to attend the "Baptist" and now attend a "Evangelical Methodist Church". I really enjoy the difference of the 2. It's a learning experience. I can see where both sides come from and knew both sides existed just from reading the bible. The Bible can reach many different types of people who think differently. The Holy Spirit Teaches all the truth that applies to them.

I am curious, can you show us the same truth by explaining the different Islamic denominations for us?

Light · Preacher Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 458

littleshepard · Preacher Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 145

oneGOD · Preacher Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 565

It means that someone declared himself a prophet after Muhammad. Most of those sects reject the hadiths.
If you want to know more about those sects, the INTERNET is full of them

Peace

Believer · Preacher Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Posts: 1462 Location: South

What about the "Nation of Islam" and "Submission"??
Are they sects of Islam, or break-off cults?
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in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2

Bushmaster · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 02:08 am Post subject:

If Muhammad is the seal of prophets, there is your answer, you need to eliminate all those sects with some prophet.
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"Maiorem hac dilectionem nemo habet ut animam suam quis ponat pro amicis suis " Evangelium secundum Iohannem 15:13

U.S. ARMY
AH-64D "Armt Dawg"

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

oneGOD · Preacher Joined: 12 Oct 2003 Posts: 565

Ok, maybe i misused the wording over here I am sorry.
I should not have called them sects and you are right believer , they are all off-cult sects. Nation of Islam and Submitters are two of them.
The "nation of Islam" cult see Elijah Muhammad as the awaited Mahdi, same as the Shi'ites. Of course their hate masseges and racism against the Whites in the states is unacceptable, and also they self appointed prophet. However, this cult is dying and most blacks are discovering the true Islam . I watched the movie of Malcom-X and read his booklet one time. He is one of those people who were in the Nation of Islam but once he did the Hajj he realized the truth and I believe that is why he was killed by his fellow members from that cult.
"Submission" that is a cult established by Rashad Khalifah. He declared himself a prophet after Muhammad and called himself the Messiah also. He established the 19 theory of the Quran, but as a matter of fact, he deleted verses and changed letters to make his theory work. He was also killed.
Hope this helps.

Peace.

Believer · Preacher Joined: 05 Oct 2003 Posts: 1462 Location: South

Thanks for the informative asnwers OneGOD, and humble.

_________________
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2

RomeSweetHome · Guest

the Majority of Muslims are Sunni within the Sunni sect consists four sects Hanafi, Shafi, Malaki and hanbali, They are very similar. I also think Wahabi is a extreme sunni sect.

Shia Muslims the second largest Islamic denomination consists of Ismaili Sect, Jafari Sect, Zaidi Sect, Hidden Shia, Ismailis, Twelvers, Alawi and Druze.

You also have Ahmadis etc......Sufis and Quranists!

I might be wrong in putting some sects under the Shia denomination but I think I am correct.

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

RomeSweetHome · Guest

I thought so, but I thought that they follow a perticular witness to the Hadeths?

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Thanks

Lady Fatima · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 07:17 am Post subject:

Peace to all,

Bushmaster,

I agree with most of the sects you have mentioned there except for Wahabbism. I'd like to mention that there is no such thing as Wahabbi. Period!!!

I have been called a wahabbi on many occassions, and I turn around ask that individual ( a muslim ofcourse

) "what is a Wahabbi?". And no answer...

Wahabbism is non existent. These bloody Americans going on about wahabbism... God

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webmaster · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 07:48 am Post subject:

Wahhabism is a movement of Islam founded by Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703 - 1792). It is a fundamentalist movement of the Sunni form of Islam and has become an object of surging interest because it is the major sect of the government and society of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, and claimed to be followed by Saudi Arabian-raised Osama bin-Laden.

The term "Wahhabi"
Followers dislike the term "Wahhabi" as it was historically used by opponents (e.g. Sultan of Turkey) as a derogatory term. The term implies that they follow Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab, whereas they, in fact, follow many other scholars -- many of whom lived centuries prior to Muhammad bin Abd al Wahhab. The term "Wahhab" is derived from "Al-Wahhab": the generous giver, a name of Allah in Islam. Some Wahabbis take this as an argumentative compliment when faced with Wahabbi as a derogatory term.

Historically, members of this movement call themselves the muwahhidun (the 'monotheists'), or al Ikhwan (the 'brethren').

At present, they only identify themselves as Muslims, or Sunni Muslims.

Texts and Sources
Wahhabism follows Islam, so the Quran and the prophetic Hadiths are its basic text. It also uses ideas from the writings of Ibn Abd al-Wahhab, such as book Kitab al-Tawhid (Arabic, "Book of Monotheism").

Influencers
Wahhabism is partly based on the 14th century Muslim theologian, scholar and jurist Ibn Taymiyya (1263 - 1328). The legal school followed is the Hanbali school of law, which is often seen as the strictest of the four schools generally recognised by Sunni Muslims, but also the most adherent to Sunnah/Hadith of the prophet.

Theology
Wahabbi theology is almost identical with the Salafi version of Islam, which advocates a literalist legalistic stance in matters of faith and religious practice. This is in contrast to other sunni Islam schools of thought, such as the more flexible Ash'aris.

Tenets
Wahhabism claims to restore Islam from what they see see as as innovations, superstitions, deviances, heresies and idolatries in the religion. During the time of Ibn Abdul Wahhab, there were lots of practices that were contrary to Islamic beliefs, such as:

Invoking any prophet, saint or angel in prayer, other than God alone (this is considered polytheism)
Grave worship, whether to saints' graves, or the prophet's grave
Celebrating annual feasts for dead saints
Wearing of charms, and believing in their healing power
Practicing magic, or going to sorcerers or witches seeking healing
Innovation in matters of religion (e.g. new methods of worship)
Visiting graves of saints
Erecting elaborate monuments over any grave
Ibn Abdul Wahhab sought to purify Islam from such practices with a "back to basics" approach.

Wahhabi teachings are strict, often referred to with reservations as 'puritanical'.

Adherents insist on a literal interpretation of the Qu'ran, not unlike many Christian fundamentalists' approach to interpreting the Bible, and a doctrine of predestination that is no stricter than traditional Calvinism.

The aim of Wahhabism, to give it its common designation, is the purification of Islam of accumulated practices perceived by the sect as counter to the strictest interpretation of the Qu'ran and the law of Shariah, which derives its authority from the Qu'ran alone.

They are unquestionably deemed Fundamentalist, but they themselves feel that a return to the pure and fundamental tenets of the religion is the ideal.

Wahhabism has sought to completely dominate traditional Sunni Islam.

Related movements
Closely related to the Wahhabi movement is the Deobandi movement originating from India and Pakistan. Both are Salafi in matters of theology, but the Deobandis follow the rulings of the Hanafi school of law in matters of Shariah, being historically the dominant school in the Indian subcontinent.

Some have speculated that Osama bin Laden, was long protected by the Taliban, because they are a Deobandi movement. This is not entirely accurate, because the majority of the Taliban are Maturidis, a variant of Ash'ari theology.

Views on other sects
Wahhabis consider Wahhabism to be the true form of Islam. They do not regard Shi'as as true Muslims, and are particularly hostile to Sufism, and to Ash'ari thought as well.

Criticism
Wahhabism is often maligned and attacked by adherents of Ash'ari belief as being anthropomorphism, which was a common accusation of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal by his Mu'tazilite detractors, and Ibn Taymiyya by Ash'ari contemporaries.

They are less open to non-Muslim religions than other branches.

Some critiques of Wahhabism are as follows:

Since they developed within a desert and tribal environment, not in a metropolis, they were affected by that environment. They were confined to tribal customs and practices in many areas, for example, the minority view of women having to cover their face becomes the only valid view, despite centuries of scholars saying otherwise.
Having not been exposed to non-Muslims, or to a more vibrant and open society (such as a metropolis), their views are not favorable towards non-Muslims, and depends mainly on hearsay (compare that with Christians who never saw Muslims)
They are literalist and legalistic to the extreme
They lack flexibility

Early history of Wahhabism
Wahhabism and other modern revivalist movments in Saudi Arabia began with a surge of reformers seeking to reclaim orthodox Islam from innovation by various sects of Sunni Muslims. In the 18th century, it spread in Najd along with the expansion of the First Saudi State under Muhammad bin Saud and his successors.

Modern spread of Wahhabism
Wahhabism is the official practice of Islam in Saudi Arabia. In 1924 the Wahhabist al-Saud dynasty conquered the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, creating the Saudi state. The spread of Wahhabi Islam has been facilitated by Saudi oil revenues; Saudi laypeople, government officials and clerics have donated many tens of millions of dollars to create Wahhabi-oriented religious schools, newspapers and outreach organizations.

The Muslim Brotherhood, an Egyptian Islamist organization, received financial support from the Saudis in the 1950s, in order to act as a counterweight to the secular Arab nationalism of Egypt's leader Abdul Nasser.

Currently, Wahhabis claim that many Muslim Brotherhood scholars are corrupted by innovations. The Muslim Brothers Sayyed Qutb, and Yusuf al-Qaradawi are all condemned by the Wahhabi movement. Wahhabis claim that Osama bin Laden is not a Wahabi, but a Qutbee (follower of Sayyed Qutb).

Osama bin Laden himself has said of Wahhabi scholars "An idol to be worshipped aside from God."

Most Wahhabis ban pictures, photographs, musical instruments, singing, video, suicide bombings, and celebrating Prophet Muhammed's birthday, among many other things.

Many contend that Wahhabism is or has become a dominant form of Islam through proselytization driven by Saudi funding; others contend that its influence is less widespread and that the practice and observance of Wahhabism and the political manifestations that flow therefrom are more nuanced than its most doctrinaire interpretations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Would it be right to say that Wahabbism is a movement?

Peace

Lady Fatima · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 07:41 pm Post subject:

Peace Webmaster,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 08:47 pm Post subject:

Peace Romesweethome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

The Shia Hadiths

Al-Kafi, Fiqah-e-Jafriya, Al-Istabsar, Tehzeeb-ul-Ahkaam.

The Sunni Hadiths

Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmizi, Abu-Daood, Sanan-Nisai, Ibn-e-Majah.

Lady Fatima The Shia's declare that they are the real Ahl al-Sunnah.

So does every other sect.

All different denominations of Islam call themselves "Ahl al-Sunnah," sometimes adding the word "Jama`ah" so they may be identified as "Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama`ah."

So you still have not shown me, what is that one clear sect in Islam in which I might be saved?

Peace

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

Lady Fatima · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 06:51 am Post subject:

Peace RomeSweetHome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Awf bin Maalik narrated:
"The Prophet (saw) said: "the jews divided into 71 sects, 1 is in Jannah and 70 are in hellfire, , the Christians were divided into 72 sects, …, by the one whose hand my soul is in, My Ummah will be divided into 73 sects, 72 are in hellfire." The Sahabah asked "who are the saved sect?" he (saw) said: "Al Jama'ah"." [Sunan ibn Majah 3982, Kitab Al Fitan]

According to the Hadith;

The Jews were divided into 72 (or 71) sects, all are in hellfire, except 1 sect, they are Moses and his companions.

The Christians were divided in to 72 sects, all in hellfire, except 1 sect, they are Jesus and his companions,

Similarly the Muslim Ummah, is divided in to 73 sects, all in hellfire, except 1 sect, they are Muhammad and his companions.

So the only Sect that will be saved is the Ahl al-Sunnah, which both Shia's and Sunnis (and other sects) claim to be.

now you have tried to tell me that the Shia are not the correct followers of the Sunnah, how do I know? I cannot just accept your biased view.

those Sunni's who call themselves "Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jama`ah" are the ones who believe in the legitimacy of the four "righteous caliphs," namely Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali.

We have come to the understand that;

1. only one section of Islam will enter heaven, the rest will enter hell.

2. the followers of the Sunnah will enter heaven, so they must be the one sect.

3. we dont know who are the "correct" followers of that Sunnah, as every Muslim sect claims to be its true keeper.

So are we to take a risk of eternal punishment to guess what sect the one may be?

humble_guest Wrote

Nickatwarwick · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:

If I might join in this arguments whilst shifting its focus slightly. RomeSweetHome, what about Christians, Catholics in particular? Do you believe Protestants will be saved? Don't worry about the more "unique" brands, like Mormonism, but in general, do all Christian denominations believe others will be saved?

Cheers
Nick
_________________
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RomeSweetHome · Guest

Nickatwarwick Wrote[/b]

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

RomeSweetHome · Guest

humble_guest Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 02:15 am Post subject:

Peace RomeSweetHome,

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 07:35 am Post subject:

Peace RomeSweetHome,

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:07 pm Post subject:

Peace RomeSweetHome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

If I am incorrect, then please enlighten me and show me how I might be saved in Islam.

How can I be guranteed a place in heaven?

Time wasting? please it only takes a few minutes to write a post.

Peace

Lady Fatima · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 07:59 am Post subject:

Peace RomeSweetHome,

humble_guest · Preacher Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 200

littleshepard · Preacher Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 145

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima, sorry it has taken me this long to reply, but the virus on my computer seems to be getting worse.

In reply to your previous post;

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 11:13 am Post subject:

Peace Rome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 09:13 am Post subject:

Peace Rome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 01:26 am Post subject:

Peace Rome,

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 09:47 am Post subject:

Peace Rome,

Thank you for the reply.

RomeSweetHome · Guest

Lady Fatima Wrote

Lady Fatima · Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 09:07 am Post subject:

Peace Rome,

Lady Fatima · Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject:

Peace Rome,

Here are the sequences of events on judgement day. Please read carefully:

Can be found in Bukhari and Muslim...

"O Messenger of Allah, shall we see our lord on the Day of Judgment?" He said: "Do you have any difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon when the sky is clear?" They said: "No" He said: "So you will have no difficulty in seeing your Lord on that day as you have no difficulty in seeing the sun and the moon (in a clear sky). The prophet (S.A.W.) Then said: " It will be announce: Let every nation follow what they used to worship, So the worshiper of the cross will go with their cross, and the idolaters (will go) with their idols, and the worshiper of every god (meaning false deities) will go with their god, till there remain those who used to worship Allah, both the obedient ones and the mischievous ones, and some of the few People of the Book. Then Hell will be presented to them as if it were a mirage. Then it will be said to the Jews: what did you use to worship? They will reply: "We used to worship Ezra, the son of Allah, Allah has neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)? They will reply: " We want you to provide us with water." Then it will be said to them: Drink and they will fall down in hell (instead). Then it will be said to the Christians: What did you use to worship? They will reply: "We used to worship Messiah (Jesus), the son of Allah. It will be said: You are liars, for Allah has Neither a wife nor a son. What do you want (now)? They will say: We want you to provide us with water. It will be said to them: "Drink, and they will fall down in Hell (instead). When there remain only used to worship Allah (alone), both the obedient and the mischievous ones, it will be said to them: "What keeps you here when all the people have gone? " They will say: We separated ourselves from them (meaning in this life) when we were in greater need of them than we are today, we heard the call of one saying, let every nation follow what they used to worship, and now we are waiting for our Lord. Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one, which they saw, the first time, and He will say: "I am your Lord." And they will say: "You are not our Lord and we are staying here until our Lord comes and when He comes, will recognize Him. So Allah will come in the shape that they knew and only the prophets will speak to Him, then. At that time it will be said to them: "Do you know of any sign by which you can recognize Him? They will say: "The shin (or leg), and so Allah will then uncover His shin where upon every believer will prostrate just for showing off and for gaining good reputation. These people will try to prostrate but their backs will be rigid like one unit (and they will not be able to prostrate).

About this event Allah (S.W.T.) says in surat Al-Qalam, (verses 42 and 43), what could be translated as, "(Remember!) The Day when the shin shall be laid bare, and they shall be summoned (or shall be called) to prostrate (to Allah), but they shall not be able to do so. There eyes will be cast down, ignominy (or humiliation) will cover them; they used to be called to prostrate (offer prayer in life of the world), while they were in full strength and power (and had refused)."

And the hadith of the prophet (S.A.W.) continued when he said: "Then the bridge will be laid across Hell, and the companions of the prophets asked: "What is the bridge, O, Messenger of Allah?" He said: " It is a slippery bridge on which there are clamps and hooks like a thorny seed that is wide at one side and narrow at the other and thorns with bent ends. Such a thorny seed is found in Najd and is called As-Sa’dan. Some of the believers will cross the bridge as quickly as the wink of an eye, some others as quick as lightning, as a strong wind, and as fast horses, so some will be safe without any harm; some will be safe after receiving some scratches, and some will fall down into the Hell Fire. The last person will cross by being dragged over the bridge. Some believers will say after they have crossed the bridge safely: O Allah! Save our Muslim brothers for they used to pray with us, fast with us, and also do good deeds with us, Allah will say: "Go and take out (of Hell) any one in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one (Dinar); Allah will forbid the Fire to burn there faces in of those sinners. They will go to them and find some of them in Hell Fire up to their feet, and some up to the middle of their legs, so they will take out those whom they will recognize and then they will return, and Allah will say to them: "Go and take out of Hell anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one half Dinar." They will take out whomever they will recognize and return. And then Allah will say: "Go and take out (of Hell anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of an atom (or smallest ant)." And so they will take out all those whom they will recognize.

The prophet (S.A.W.) then continued saying: "Then the prophets and angels and the believers will intercede, and (last of all) the Almighty Allah will say: "Now remains my intercession." He will then hold a handful of the Fire from which He will take out some people whose bodies have been burned, and they will be thrown into a river at the sides of paradise, called the water of the life. They will grow on its banks, as a seed carried by the water stream. They then will come out of the river like pearls, and they will have necklace, and they will enter Paradise where upon the people of Paradise will say: "These are the people who were let free by the beneficent. He has admitted them into Paradise without them having them have done any good deeds and without sending forth any good (for themselves). Then it will be said to them: " For you is what you have seen and its equivalent as well."

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