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Is Homosexuality a Sin? Voice why you voted the way you did.
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[jjf1990]

Homosexuality is a sin.
Know ye not that our bodies are the temple of God, which is where the Holy Spirit dwells?
God will destroy any man who defiles the temple of God.

[dp]

I believe homosexuality to be sin... and it seems to be pretty clear in Scripture that it is...

[Guest]

Yes it is!!! How can anyone read the Bible and believe anything else? Romans 1:26-28; "God gave them up unto vile affections" Ro.1:26, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind" Ro. 1:28, God"s word is clear!!

[Guest]

If Gay activist can show a verse that even hints that homosexuality is moral and accepted by God I will change my mind. Until then I will believe Gods word when he called it an abomination.

[fuzz2050]

for many people homosexuality isn't a choice. msot gays are simply born gay. to deny them of their natural desires would be like denying me of views to oppose. some of my best friends are gay, i have no objection to them, or they sexual oreintations. as of now i can not show you a verse that says homosexuality is "Good" or "Moral" but i can show you a verse that says it is "Good and moral" to commit genocide, or one where it is "Good and moral" to make daily animal sacrifices

[white rabbit]

Yeah, and eating pork is a sin according to the Bible too. And we are obligated to stone gays. And we cant turn on a light on Saturdays. I can provve a lot using the Bible.

However, it has been slightly modified(if you are Christian, our bible has basically been forsaken). Plus, Rashi says "The Torah speaks the language of man", meaning that since we cant understand what God wants, it is put into language we can understand-ie the hand of God when God is not a corpreal being.

Anyways, we also have a commandment to "love thy neighbor as yourself". W shouldn't automatically say, when one follows their biological need to be gay, "he is a sinner and goes against God". One cannot help his sexual orientation. As I have said elsewhere in this forum, it is unhealthy to ignore this need. It is, in fact, being disrespectful of the body which God gave you. He chose to make you this way, give you this need.
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eternally perplexed regarding the narrow-mindedness of some people

[NoXion]

I voted no. I believe homosexuality to be one of the loudest expressions of freedom.
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"...we will never break the chains on our bodies until we first break the chains in our heads." - Redstar2000

"Am I 'narrow-minded' or 'intolerant'? You bet your 'Bible' I am! 6,000 years of bloody irrational [religious] tyranny is enough!" - Anon

[Voice of Reason]

THIS IS LONG, EVERYONE. BUT FOR ALL THOSE WHO PREACH AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY, IT IS A CHALLENGE. AND I THINK IT IS A CHALLENGE YOU SHOULD ACCEPT. SO READ IT ALL, AND IF POSSIBLE, OPEN YOUR MINDS FOR A MOMENT.

I do not set out now to insult Christianity in any way. I am respectful of all religions and all believers, and I see no reason why there should be a bias or any other form of exception for Christianity. I only post this here to make a statement that I believe is valid, and to be challenged...though I know not by what. To begin, I will state firstly that I do not believe homosexuals are to be condemned by the Bible, and furthermore, that I see several sad instances of the misuse of religion here. Please listen, and listen carefully. I challenge you to reply, and reply with logic, and see if your statements can truly stand.

What you all must understand is that the Bible's verses themselves are very vague, subject to endless interpretations. Any person that thinks the many mesopotamians that wrote down the Biblical text over the many years of its development wanted to create a document that did not allow room for interpretation is a fool, and should really study history a bit more.

What you fail to recognize is that no matter how much you nitpick at particular verses, you really cannot claim to know the original intent of the text; and thus you must make informed deductions. You could, for example, take 'love thy neighbor' literally--in that you would physically love your neighbor--but that, as most of you will agree, is idiotic.

Then how is one to make such deductions? Well, the smartest of Christians make these deductions based off the general direction of the text, and the recurring themes. To make interpretations contrary to this is foolish. So, what is the most often recurring theme in Jesus' teachings? Love, of course. Love of your fellow man.

The texts you cite can be interpreted as condemning homosexuality. However, this is not only a stretch, but runs contrary to the underlying themes running throughout the bible. The bible calls out for understanding and diversity...not condemnation over misinterpreted verses. In other words, by nitpicking so much, you're missing the point.

Why does this happen? To answer simply, xenophobia. It can be observed althroughout history. Man is inherently skeptical and often hateful of those different from himself. What is pitiful, however, is that man is willing to twist around the well-meaning advice of their religious leaders(namely, for christians, Jesus) in order to justify their own fears.

Years ago, man interpreted the Bible to condemn blacks and make slavery permissible. Before that, man said the Bible gave them the right to kill not only those of other religions, but those of differing viewpoints inside of the Christian faith.

Now, it is homosexuality. This movement to condemn homosexuals is, in reality, another in a long stream of movements aimed to satisfy the xenophobic tendencies of man. In fearing those that are different, men turn to loathing those that are different, and feeling overwhelmed with this fear, they twist the benevolent words of their Master to make hate permissible.

Hate is not permissible. Condemnation of benevolent human beings is not permissible. And your fear, loathing and Biblical justification of the evil nature of homosexuality is not permissible.

You will turn, of course, to your text and point out remote passages. You will talk yourself to sleep with such blind blathering. But your interpretation will ultimately go against the flow of love that Jesus wanted in the first place. I do not need to cite anything to prove this...it is the most obvious theme existing in the Bible. Love your fellow man. Do not hate him. Jesus spoke against xenophobia--the most terrifyingly intrinsic destructive urge of man--not for it.

So, you see, though you claim to follow Jesus, you are in fact straying from the path he paved for you. Granted, I'm not saying you're heathen. You obviously love God, and trust the Bible.

But you succumb to your fear, and the hate that spawns from it...you succumb to the venom that lurks deep inside the Id that Jesus wanted man to suppress, to overcome. And so you stray, if only in this area.

Do not stray. Do not misuse your religion to justify your fear, for the fear is a perversion in itself. Of course, as is obvious by the existence of the anti-homosexual movement, many are not strong enough to do this. And those that are not strong enough to do it will hand their fear and their weakness down to their children, forbidding all deviations from their teachings.

And so what Jesus wanted to suppress only grows, poisoning us all. It is a pity. And those that are unable to stop it, to get past what their fathers have programmed in them, to get over their hate...in their own way, deep inside, they are pitiful.

Not so pitiful, though, to stop change. I only wish that I will live to see it.

[Aineo]

You are correct in stating Jesus gave us a new commandment “Love your neighbor as yourself”, which He states follows just below “Love God with all your heart, mind and soul.” So the first commandment is to love God. Ask yourself this question how do we know if love of God is the most important factor/relationship in our lives? Jesus equated love with obedience, now the question is obedience to what and/or whom? My answer is through His revealed word the Bible.

I guess the next question is who wrote the Bible? According to Jesus Moses is the author of the first 5 books or the Torah, which I accept in spite of modern theologians who say the Torah was written by a minimum of 7 people over thousands of years.

[Voice of Reason]

ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS LONG, BUT IF YOU WISH TO RESPOND FURTHER TO MY CHALLENGE I SUGGEST YOU READ IT. IF NOT…WELL, THAT’S RATHER BORING.

You bring out some valid arguments and make a good show of reasoning, which I applaud, even though I still ultimately find your logic to be unconvincing.

I accept that you believe that Moses wrote the Bible. There are strong arguments to be made against it, however. The results of extensive research in early Biblical scriptures shows that the likelihood of a single author is very slim, if not at least physically impossible. I have come to believe this version, and that the numerous writers who eventually wrote down the scripture over time were very intelligent in that they made a very flexible text.

In my opinion, the 'vague' nature was intended as such--to tell simple stories with meanings that could apply to more than just one age--however, I suppose that in this case it is simply a matter of science conflicting with belief. I never knew Moses or his true story, and thus I cannot say absolutely that you are wrong and I am right.

I can say, however, that the passage you cited is a misconception of what the book of Peter was truly trying to say about scripture. To state absolutely that there is no room for interpretation flies in the face of the logic that brought you to derive the morals you cling to from the Bible.

Once again, I use the same simple ideas: "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." Let us extrapolate a bit. If there is no open-ended interpretation, then I love my neighbor...namely the person(s) in closest proximity to me. With no open-ended interpretation, I need not love anyone else. To say that Peter meant that there is solely one interpretation of a writing in scripture is entirely illogical. Christianity survives because it is flexible--it can change with the ages, because of its openness to interpretation. A simple 'reductio ad absurdum' makes saying otherwise...well, absurd.

Of course, your 'reductio ad absurdum' of my argument is also well-phrased. Yes, taking such a simple statement as 'love your fellow man' to an extreme would shrink morality to an infinite zero.

Therefore I will clarify myself. What I meant is that when interpreting a religious text (more accurately, trying to figure out the original intent of the author) your deductions must follow sound rhetoric.

The Biblical passages defining certain moralities such as idolatry, adultery, etc., even if widely interpreted, point in a general direction that is in line with Jesus’ original message. This hence generates the shape of Christian morality. People will disagree on the technicalities, but the proof that idolatry is indeed a sin in respect to the Christian faith is very convincing, perhaps most of all because it is in agreement with such over-arching principals as 'love your neighbor as you love yourself.'

However, the case against homosexuality—I’m sure you and I both know most of the passages, but if you later demand a detailed exegesis I can give one—is based off deductions and interpretations that are not in line with the perhaps the largest theme in the Bible. This does not in itself disprove the case, but it does put the burden of proof on the party making the case.

And it is here that the proof is inadequate. It is here that passages with a wide scope and vague language—I do not say ‘vague’ to be demeaning to the Bible, I simply wish to make a point—are stretched in order to justify the fears of many people against homosexuals. And when I mean wide scope and vague language I mean that the meaning is very foggy and open to endless interpretations. To make sound conclusions on such vague passages you must deduce carefully. But the deductions made here by Christians who claim homosexuality is a sin are poor, as they do not lie in agreement with the greater themes of the Bible. The conclusions made are strained and it is made painfully obvious by their contradiction to Jesus’ ideas of love and an end to persecution.

The Bible marks a great many things unjust, some more clear than others. It is in these unjust acts that ‘love your fellow man’ stops, and you must, as you said, ‘hate the sin and love the sinner.’ But the Bible only marks homosexuals as sinners if you twist it, strain it. The Bible marks idolatry and other sins as sins with no effort at all.

To say that the Bible is not vague and open to interpretation is a joke. If it were so, everyone would agree on what it says. And that is certainly not the case. Furthermore, to insist on such would make Christianity applicable to only one era, and rather impotent in the modern world, which it is certainly not.

You have reasoning there, yes, better than most I’ve seen on this board, but you still remain unconvincing. I welcome you to continue this debate, but if not I at least thank you for your thought out reply. A battle of wit (though perhaps that is an over-glamorous name for our argument here) always provides food for thought.

I apologize for the length. I’m rather long-winded, as is readily observable, which is both a blessing and a curse.

[Boiler Bro Joe]

Thank you Voice of Reason. You've successfully put down, quite eloquently, my thoughts on this topic. If people don'tmind, I'd like to see the passages that arecommonly used to condemn homosexuality. Because the ones I've seen so far simply say not to defile your body, because it is the God's temple. How is homosexual sex considered defiling the body if it's an expresion of love? This passage could be interpreted as condemning any introduction of a foreign substances into the body. Should people stop taking medicine? They're not a natural part of the human body. What about alcohol? Alcohol is quite literally, a poison. Yet Jesus drank wine for ceremonious purposes just as very other Jewish person did. And the passage from the story of Sodom and Gomorah "bring [the men] out so that we may have sex with them" could simply condemn rape, not homosexuality. What other passages are there that plainly express homosexuality as being a sin?

I think emphasis absolutely must be placed on Reason's statement that interpretation is necessary to use the Bible at all. I read the Bible passages and sometimes don't understand a thing. Does that mean they're "wrong"? No, of course not. But neither does it mean that I should depend on the interpretation of another human being who, like me, is flawed, even if they've studied the text for years. Why is there even such thing as Bible study if the text is so simple? Many here have claimed that I, as well as others, choose to take what we want from the Bible to satisfy our own ideas. But so do they. There is not one solitary interpretation of the Bible and thus anyone reading it at all, is "taking what they want" and disregarding other possible interpretations. So, as I've asked numerous times before, why is that interpretion correct and others incorrect? Becausew you made it? Because someone told you it was right? We must start relying on GOD and not other human beings for the truth. The Bible was written (although you may say inspired by God) and translated and interpreted by humans. All we can do is read the texts as a guidline and look into ourselves - our temple where God resides - for how to interpret it. And my heart tells me that homosexuality is a wonderful expression of love, a gift from God.

[Aineo]

[White Flame]

Homosexulaity is a sin. The bible said in the last days people will depart from the faith and men with men and woman with woman burned in their lust which their ERROR was met. The punishment of sin is death.
Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven ONLY those who do the will of his father. This is not just for homosexuals but for drunkards, adulterers, murders and all liars. Jesus wants us all to come to repentance and sin no more. This is not my saying but which came from out of the holy bible.

[Aineo]

[Satan]

What are the bible's exact words regarding homosexuality... someone write where it says it's not alright to engage in sexual relations with people of the same sex. I've never read those words myself - help, please?

haters

BTW... here's another site you guys should check out: http://www.kkklan.com/

[Alpha]

[Another Essene]

[Alpha]

There's a big difference between men loving men and men loving men.

[Another Essene]

[LindaBee2]

[Alpha]

[Another Essene]

[Aineo]

[Boiler Bro Joe]

So couldn't two gay men marry, provided that they don't have sex? It's simply an expression of love, moreso than simple friendship.

[LindaBee2]

[JonnyBFrantz]

To me, the issue is very simple if you're a Christian. The Bible makes it clear that homosexuality is a sin. However, we can not forget that love is the key. Love is always the key. In the Bible it says Christians should speak in love and truth. Meaning regardless of the sin, whether it's sex outside the marriage, homosexuality, unforgiveness..., we should love the person but not accept the sin. Unfornuately, many times Christians have forgoten either the love or the truth. We need both.

[LindaBee2]

[JustAThought]

At the end of the day it all boils down to one simple fact. God created man and God gave man the ability to make a choice. Then God gave his word in the form of the Bible to help us lost mortals to make the CORRECT choice. So when the day is done do you have full confidence that the choices you have made are the correct ones based on God's word in the Bible? This is an answer that will be only given after mortal death and you stand in front of God. I would make a simple suggestion, Pray, Mediate, Study, and become as informed as possible before making a decision that will affect you much more in the immortal plane than simple bantering back and forth on the mortal plane. The choice is yours.

[LindaBee2]

[brycetaylor]

According to the Bible, which I personally believe to be the flawless Word of God, homosexuality is clearly a sin. I believe it is also a choice...you can choose to be gay, or you can choose heterosexuality. It is a more difficult choice to make for certain people, just like it's more difficult to refrain from drunkenness for some people...just like it's more difficult to refrain from pornography for some people. I don't believe that homosexuals should be cast out of church...we are all sinners....but I do believe they need to fight their immoral desires and try to become sexually pure according to the Bible. It IS possible to turn from homosexuality...not easy, but possible....I think the only way to do it is through Jesus.
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-Bryce Taylor
"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as unto the Lord, rather than man." -Colossians 3:23.
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," -1 Peter 3:15

[preacherintraining]

As posted earlier it does say to cast them out if they refuse to repent.

[brycetaylor]

yes..... if they refuse to repent
_________________
-Bryce Taylor
"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as unto the Lord, rather than man." -Colossians 3:23.
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," -1 Peter 3:15

[Aineo]

[preacherintraining]

So if someone is homosexual and as long as they don't have sex they are fine? Does this hold true even if they see someone they are so attracted to that they wish they could have sex with? I mean as long as they don't?

[Aineo]

[Julie]

Yes.

If the Bible says so then that's good enough for me.