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HOMOSEXUALITY IS STILL SIN

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There remains today a perpetual bombardment of the homosexual agenda. Homosexuals are flaunted in this modern-age of "political correctness" as victims and heros for their stand for the right of homosexuality and alternative lifestyles. All who would oppose their position are considered to be bigots. More and more gay and lesbian actors are included in sitcoms and movies as an attempt to soften any objection the average American would feel toward homosexuality. The media has no shame in their left-wing efforts to promote gay and lesbian acceptance, all the while bashing the "right-wing" for its stand against sodomy.

Yes, the American society may be growing more lenient of this sinful lifestyle, but the question is: "Is God becoming more tolerant toward homosexuality?" For an honest person, the answer to this question is easy. "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor. 6:9-10, cf. Gal. 5:19ff. and 1 Tim. 1:9ff.). "For this cause God gave them [Gentiles] up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet" (Rom 1:25-27). The Scriptures cannot be more explicit on this disputed subject.

Some contend that God does not have the same feeling of disapproval of homosexuality as He did in biblical times. Consider, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" (Mal. 3:6). "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb. 13:8, cf. Matt 24:35). God does not waver on His verdict of sin. If God accepts homosexuality today, then why did He destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 19)? Jude says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7). God used these cities as examples of His feeling toward debauched societies. If He does not condemn homosexuality today, then He will have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day, "Sorry, you should have been born in America in the 20th century; it’s O.K. there." As Christians, we strongly maintain that God would never say this.


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Considering the Homosexual Agenda (Part 1)

As Christians, we strongly stand by our God who says that homosexuality is perversion (Rom. 1:26-2. However, we do not want to be misunderstood in our purpose. God does not hate the homosexual, for He sent His Son to die for the gay and lesbian too (John 3:16-17). Neither is our purpose to promote violence toward these persons (two wrongs do not equal a right, cf. Rom. 12:17), nor do we consider the homosexual to be a lesser being. Christians view homosexuals as the Bible says; persons who are in need of God’s forgiveness, and those who God is willing to forgive when they cease their practice of sodomy(i.e. repentance, cf. Luke 13:3). While considering this series of articles, please keep in mind that this author has no ill feelings toward the individuals who are involved in homosexuality; instead, the problem pertains to the sin itself, and with the portrayal of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle as opposed to God’s divine institution of marriage between male and female (Gen. 2:21-25, Matt 19:1-9).

The greatest achievement for the gay and lesbian community is the shifting of the debate from "that of behavior to that of identity." They have succeeded in changing their image from generally being considered sinful and loathsome, to now advocated by liberal politicians and Hollywood as a clean alternative to heterosexual marriage. What happened? Gays and lesbians "coming out of the closet" did not occur by way of chance, but with a planned agenda. Marshall K. Kirk and Erastes Pill wrote an article in the 1997 November issue of Guide Magazine entitled: "The Overhauling of Straight America" in which is listed the gay itinerary. Number one on Kirk and Pill’s list is to, "Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible." It was not an arbitrary statement to say that America has been bombarded with the homosexual agenda.. The intent of this strategy is to dull the normal person’s resistance to homosexuality. Once we hear about something long enough, we reach a point when we no longer are alarmed by it. Think of the potential danger that is still lying ahead. What if pedophiles (child molesters) decide to use the same course of action with their debauchery; will we turn away from this too after a period of time? Will pedophiles be deemed victims and heros one day like gays and lesbians in America? Dear reader, this process is already underway.


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Considering the Homosexual Agenda (Part 2)

Last week we considered the agenda of Homosexuals as given by Marshall K. Kirk and Erastes Pill in Guide Magazine (November, 1997). Number one on their list was, "Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible." This they have done for sure! Now, let us consider the second item: "Portray homosexuals as victims, not as aggressive challengers." Number sixteen of the same list serves as a clear illustration of their procedure:

Vilification of victimizers: These images should be combined with those of their homosexual victims by a method propagandists call "bracket technique." For example, for a few seconds an unctuous beady-eyed Southern preacher is seen pounding the pulpit in rage about "those sick abominable creatures." While this tirade continues over the sound track, the picture switches to pathetic photos of homosexuals who look, decent, harmless, and likeable; and then we cut back to the poisonous face of the preacher, and so forth. The contrast speaks for itself. The effect is devastating.

One can easily observe the dishonesty in their approach. Gays and lesbians have to manipulate the American society’s thinking about homosexuality in order to make their own perverted lifestyle acceptable. What deception! It must be understood that homosexuals do not really care if we accept them or not; they just want their way. Gays and lesbians are not interested in the welfare of American communities, they are selfish and only interested in themselves. Number seventeen proves the previous statement, "We [Kirk and Pill] have sketched out here a blueprint for transforming the social values of straight America. At the core of our program is a media campaign to change the way the average citizens view homosexuality."

Christians (Acts 11:26, 1 Peter 4:16, Acts 2:47) are not a perfect people (i.e. not sinlessly perfect, cf. 1 John 1:8-10), but our approach to the community will never be that of deception. We see no need in trying to deceive people into agreeing with us on morals issues, or on any other matter (Rom. 12:21, Jude 3). Christians are to be a "shining light" in the community; "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 5:16). We are to, "...provide things honest in the sight of all men" (Rom. 12:17b). Dear reader, is this the method of the homosexual’s agenda? Surely it is not. Do you appreciate being lied to, or perhaps being manipulated into accepting homosexuality?

1. Kent Bailey, "Homosexuality," in Worldliness, ed. Michael Hatcher (Pensacola, FL: Bellview Church of Christ, 1999), 284. 2. Ibid., 285. 3. Ibid.




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Considering the Homosexual Agenda (Part 3)

Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill have other tenets on their homosexual agenda. (Some of these we will not discuss, because they are so similar to the ones previously mentioned: e.g. 4. Make homosexuals look good., 5. Make the victimizers look bad., 7. Get on the air with radio and television programs., 9. Encourage favorable homosexual characters in films and television shows. et. a.l.) Another aim is number twelve, "Make homosexuals seem less mysterious; present a series of short spots featuring the boy or girl next door, fresh and appealing, or warm and loveable grandma and grandpa types." In other words, take social relationships that are pure and helpful to society and our children, then try to deceive people into believing that homosexuals are "wholesome" just like our grandparents. This is an attempt by homosexuals, like Kirk and Pill, to make homosexuality appear to be a friendly alternative lifestyle.

Do Christians feel that homosexuals are monsters or beasts? No, but their lifestyle is the monstrosity. They have taken what was natural (i.e. in harmony with nature’s laws and purposes, Gen. 2:24-25), and perverted it to satisfy their sinful lust (Rom. 1:24-2. This author has no joy in expressing this to the public. It would be delightful if we did not have to deal with it, but homosexuality exists in our society; thus, the truth needs to be told about the sin of homosexuality, especially for the homosexual’s sake (cf. Ezek 3:17-21).

The deceptive process of taking pure relationships such grandparents and neighboring children, and portraying to us that homosexuality is just as beneficial to us socially as these, should be an insult to us. We think more of the relationships of our grandparents and our neighbor’s children than to allow some one (some persons) to deceive us into thinking that homosexuals should be on their level of friendship and trust. We treasure our relationships with our family and friends, but not with homosexuality. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isa. 5:20)!
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http://www.former-muslims.com

[LindaBee2]

[Alpha]

Yes Linda you are right about homosexuals having the same oppurtunities as straight people, but you gotta admit that having gay actors /actresses makes society more vulnerable to accepting the homosexual lifestyle as "normal."

[Aineo]

[Alpha]

[Aineo]

[LindaBee2]

[Rakim]

Gays can be Christians just like murderers and rapists can. But the lifestyle is left behind when one truly accepts the Lord. You cannot still be a murderer and a rapist and say "I am a Christian. I love the Lord." Just like you can't sit up and be proud of being gay and say "I am a Christian. I love the Lord." You show that you are not following Christ. To love Jesus is to follow and obey Jesus. You can't be a proud pedophile and be a Christian. Some behaviors must cease immediately. Perfection is not required, but you have to acknowledge that the gay lifestyle is immoral and turn from it. Increase in Bible knowledge, pray and do what you know is right. In time, you will give up sins daily. A hooker is a hooker until she truly accepts Jesus. She does not return to being a hooker once she learns more about Jesus and increases in knowledge and faith. Once she matures spiritually and becomes strong in Spirit and in faith, she could become a leader in the church. No way should a hooker who has not demonstrated maturity in the faith hold an office, no more than a openly gay person should. Being gay should be in his past, not a present reality and having a personal acceptance of the lifestyle. Many gays claim to be Christians and claim that being so is acceptable and good. This is wickedly false. This is false teaching. Homosexuality is an abomination. 9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
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May you have Peace and blessings from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[clarissa]

I agree - a friend of mine showed me this site

http://br.divamag.co.uk/binn/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=2


which allegedly contains peeps who both profess to love God and be Lesbian. I DO think however that these are the people we should be targetting as potential converts, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing.

May the Lord be with you,

Clarissa[/url]
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invest in God

[Airman74]

Understood homosexuality is the feel of love/desire a male or female has toward their own sex. Regardless of how it came to be- (as there are a multitude of ways) this is what the person feels and knows to be true of themselves. Someone telling him/her what you feel, rejecting what they feel, explaining how wrong it is, or making them feel outcast is not going to change how they feel. They feel this way deep inside themselves and telling them how wrong it is only confuses a person who is already subject to ridicual in everyday life. Its not love or loving someone. I' m not gay but I accept anyone and everyone for what they feel themselves, because I can not tell them what, who they are inside. Many people are born this way and by rejecting it you cause they're life to become a living Hell as the go one fighting themselves. And if you claim its wrong by God, blame him, he is the creator.

Now you see why its taught not to judge. Because people are the worst when it comes to judging- it only a dish to feed your ego.
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Agnostic

[Aineo]

On the other hand you can share information, experiences, and resources with love and without judging. One can also judge behavior without judging an individual.

As you shared on another thread you can inform people of truth and unless they recieve what is shared as truth you can do no more.
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[Airman74]

But you see your whole purpose is based on judgment that is why the attempt is made to change the person. This is reflected in any aspect of trying to convince someone to follow your way. Its judgment from the most primal level- "If you don't conceive my understanding, you go your own way, which is against my way, therefore it is wrong."

If we concern ourselves less with judgment (of anything) and focused more on understanding others life would flow in total acceptance. Be only concerned in judging yourself while trying to understand all others. In this, no one pushes against any others way. You are free, I am free and we are both happy about it.

I'm discouraged with people in our society as they are overly absorbed in the concern, control and activities of other people and all along fail to sit with themselves and perfect understanding to create the meaning of their life.

Nearly no one on earth has experienced truth. We like to convince ourselves that truth is found in words or is something that can be passed on and received if we just listen close enough. The false belief of knowing Truth, is of its own fabrication, evidence that we are far from it.

Pointing a finger to direct someone toward Truth weighs heavier then any words will.
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Agnostic

[Aineo]

[Airman74]

The reason gay people call you Homophobic (I always hated that word- as its stated in such a blanket manor), is equal to and the opposite to your claim against them. The only reason aggression continues is that each is a life-support unto the other. If aggression is removed from one end the other will disappear- nothing can exist without its opposite. If one stopped and the other continued it would be like yelling at a rock. The words would be empty.

Reread what you have written below (it’s a smart way to learn more about yourself- offered in all due respect) When ones own logic to conflicts a person unknowingly deceives themselves. Your use of "Gods truth" is used as a scapegoat discarding your responsibility in the judgments you lay on others, done in Gods name. Ignoring the conflict, forcing judgment in a wish to change others according to your understanding of "Gods Truth", to follow you, but your unwilling to accept responsibility to your claim. (as clear in your first two sentences)

Using this logic you not one word you ever say would be wrong. It’s like a man claiming to be God, authoring a book, and writing in it they are God, then later justifying the claim, in the evidence, from his book, where he wrote, proclamations of being God. It’s called a circulatory argument; basically the person laying the claim plays judge and jury to the decree of his claims.

Lacking development to base your own claims in reason from your experience and all you are doing is repeating someone else’s words like a parrot. - Blind acceptance, barrowed knowledge, loss of reason. Would you believe its OK to kill gays if this was the popular belief of "Gods Truth"?


Personally I don't have a definition of truth. It can't be read, its something that happens which is never wrong. Here is a lecture from another person which might do a better job of describing my understand of what Truth maybe- but I do not know. You can read the whole article here- http://www.innerself.com/Spirituality/religionless.htm


"There is no need to believe in anything — that is the fundamental of science. That is the scientific approach to reality: do not believe, inquire. The moment you believe, inquiry stops. Keep your mind open — neither believe nor disbelieve. Just remain alert and search and doubt everything until you come to a point which is indubitable — that's what truth is. You cannot doubt it. It is not a question of believing in it, it is a totally different phenomenon. It is so much a certainty, overwhelming you so much, that there is no way to doubt it." Osho
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Agnostic

[Aineo]

[Airman74]

Do not worry I'm not offended by other people’s views. I only have a problem when people push barrowed ideas on others like salesmen (not you in particular)-I'm came here, no one asked me.

Nothing gave me a feeling more ugly inside as when growing up people tried to sell me God- Their words were always empty, speaking of things they had never experienced- promising things they really knew nothing about. Nothing except when I sold newspaper subscriptions door to door then I experienced it first hand. I felt false as they taught me techniques to talk people into it- all along thinking "why am I forcing a subscription on them they don’t really want". It was short lived.

I had a realization at about 18 years old. Sitting alone I understood that adults do have unsolved problems- I held a picture of all the adults in my life and how they had been so untrue to me about who they were. The painted picture was so pretty. They created a false world to me. None of them had total control of their lives or mastered mistakes. All along shadowing faults, covering what is real in order to justify their discipline upon me. Using my experience of reality as a pon to their self-worth, while they discipline me within their own lack of control. Had they only been honest everyone would have been able to learn from each other. But adults are too ego driven, even in their mistakes, to allow children to prove them wrong.

My point is I can not take what is true from any book or what someone else tells me. Just in the way I could never follow one religion, one person, one idea. I can listen, read too all of them, then place them against what I have experienced. I do my best not to judge anyone, and usually only do so in an unconscious attempt to be funny or smart. I'm lucky in that I walk a thin line and naturally don't feel angst against what any other people do. Its nothing I did or should feel proud of accomplishing- just that I hold on to no ideas, ideals or conceptions.

All actions are done in relation to their behavior at each moment. The moments combined from life to death equal what is a person’s life. The judgment of their behavior is a judgment of their life. The two can not be separated.

You seem to be an intelligent person. If you get a chance check out the true history of the bible. How it was destroyed, rebuilt and written. The Orthodox Christian monks who developed many of the principles and teaching to live by did so in story line narratives. This was done so the understanding was easily understood without needing to read and it could be spread more easily. It was never their intention to have what they wrote- walking on water, the world flooding etc..... taken literally. But people have selective reading, therefore limited understanding.

Thats all I have to say about that. If you survived my writing its now time to get away and live.
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Agnostic

[Aineo]

Many adults are ego driven, pride filled, and many teach "do as I say not as I do". All of us are the product of our education, society, experiences, and what we have been taught.

I have studied the early history of Christianity including the development of the canon. Some of what you have shared is true, but not all of it.

[Pine]

Early Church was made up of ex-fornicators, ex-idolaters, ex-adulterers, ex-gays, ex-thieves, ex-alcoholics etc.

Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 MKJV

[slipslopslap]

Pine,

You forgot the commandments! We souldn't stop and draw the line there! I am sure you broke the first commandment. That's were the line should be drawn! Welcome to hell.
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Existentialism makes most sense to me. I think christ was a political and fundamental teacher. I think the Pharasee\'s where perfect old testament people. God can not be Gracious merciful and just at the same time. I don\'t know who Jesus really is but for someone who has power and life; is insignificant in my generation. Where is the good teacher?

[Aineo]

[slipslopslap]

Admin, is he perfect? hahahaha


Do you even know what all means? This is how i know; All heart All soul All mind. It is impossible. right?


Take care cheif
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Existentialism makes most sense to me. I think christ was a political and fundamental teacher. I think the Pharasee\'s where perfect old testament people. God can not be Gracious merciful and just at the same time. I don\'t know who Jesus really is but for someone who has power and life; is insignificant in my generation. Where is the good teacher?

[Aineo]

[Sir_Monks]

[quote="Aineo"]

[Sophie the Questioner]

Hello LindaBee2

[Paul Mccluskey]

[Sophie the Questioner]

Hello Paul.

[Aineo]

I agree with Sophie. There is a lot of un-Christian rhetoric coming from "Christian" sources. BTW, Phelp's is far from Christian and should not be used to measure God's truth.
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[Sophie the Questioner]

Hello Aineo

Quite I agree

I think I will illustrate my point, about the idea of Gd being mocked. I thank Jshua every day, for having faced the sanhedrin, having been whipped till his flesh came off his back, having had a crown of thorns dug into his scalp. having walked so far with a large block of wood, to which he was nailed. having suffered the sheer agony of that, and there was worse to come.

He went into hell to prevent us from going there. and then rose after doing that. Jshua went to hell and back for us.

And some mock what he did.

Some people erect statues of people who were murdered, and celebrate them "going to hell for eternity". They claim that Jshua joins in with this celebration? They claim that Jshua revels in and celebrates a lost soul burning in hell, this is after what Jshua went through to prevent people from such torment.

I put it that Jshua and Gd are being Mocked alright, Golden Calf style. Someone who really should repent, is claiming the Jshua enjoys sending people to hell. As if they were percieving Gd as a bovine shaped lump of metal. They do not Describe Gd they do not describe Jshua, they describe
something that they may be judged for when given to account for thier own sins.

I feel very hurt by the fact that Fred Phelps, allegedly a teacher of righteousness, a pastor or whatever. Claims that Jshua loves to see people tormented for eternity. he appears to mock my Gd.

I will quote Jshua again...

John 8:3....

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group

John 8:4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.


John 8:5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"


John 8:6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.


John 8:7 But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

It is perfectly simple. Gd does not celebrate when someone is lost in hell.

I dont care what people say about many other sins, that is between them and Jshua. Self righteousness, pride and arrogance are also sin. And that is also between those people and Jshua.

This is about some people deliberately mocking the forfillment of the law by Jshua and this time instead of it being a lump of gold shaped like a calf, it is the idol of hatred for another human being. Jshua is not hatred for another human being like Gd is not a lump of calf shaped gold.

The scriptures are very very clear about it.

The thing is. Foolishness is easy to follow wisdom is however not. Foolishness is giving in to feeling of hate and ascribing them to Jshua, Foolsihness is making an idol, so as to fit Gd in one place. Wisdom is seeing your own sin, seeing what you do wrong and seeking Gd on that
Wisdom is seeing Gd as Gd. Gd is who Gd is. But this is more difficult, and this is why it is wisdom.

So the sin of Fred phelps is between Jshua and Fred Phelps, and I really hope he sees his foolishness. Because believe it or not I dont relish the idea of Phelps suffering hell, I like my Gd dont relish anyone suffering hell.

Gd Bless

Sophie.
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Why create something in order to destroy it?
Why create free will and then impose rules?
Why not Question?

[doodlewacker]

[Aineo]

doodlewacker, have you ever read the Bible? If you have then you would understand that Phelp's in not a Christian. He is bigot who thinks only he has the truth, a truth he does not practice.

Self-hatred? WOW how you Aussie posters just love that phrase. One day one of you Aussie gay activists will come up with something new to throw at me. What I have discovered over the decades is that people who accuse me of self-hatred usually deal with what they accuse me of just as I have discovered that the most radical anti-gays and gay bashers usually have suppressed homosexual desires. You attack what you fear by attacking people in a debate since this is an attempt to focus on people and not issues.

Why do you hate yourself?
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[doodlewacker]

[Aineo]

After I diagnosed HIV+ my infectious disease doctor told me I was taking my diagnosis to calmly and I needed counseling. So guess what I did? I went to counseling for 3 months to get him off my back. My counselor was a gay man with a master in psychology. It did not take long for him to tell me that I did not need to continue our sessions since I did not need his services.

The company I worked for changed medical insurance the following year and my new infectious disease doctor gave me Prozac for my inherited tremor, which my primary care physician objected to and sent me to a psychiatrist. Now this alone should tell you that not all doctors do what it proper since a neurologist is who finally diagnosed my tremor. But, again a mental health professional this time one that diagnosis and treats diseases of the brain told me the same thing the psychologist did; so those mental health professionals you keep referring to have told me I do not suffer from self-hate.

So why do you Aussies keep throwing that phrase at me? Because it is your only defense against an ex-gay man who has found real peace and joy in his life.

I also know gay couples who have been together for from 5+ years who are happy and well adjusted individuals. So what is your point? I know many heterosexual couples that have been married from 1 to 50 years who can't stand each other but remain married for their own reasons. Happiness is a state of mind. What is your answer to gays who are not happy being gay and who seek professional help and still remain unhappy? Oh, I know you blame religious people who say homosexuality is a sin. We are the scapegoat for unhappy gays, unhappy heterosexuals living together without the benefit of marriage and every other group that is unhappy. How about those people taking responsibility for your own life and quit blaming others for their circumstances, has that every entered your mind? Of course not since it is easier to blame someone else.

Personal breakthroughs can come at any age; mine came between 40 and 50 so again what is your point?

[doodlewacker]

[quote="Aineo"] After I diagnosed HIV+ my infectious disease doctor told me I was taking my diagnosis to calmly and I needed counseling. So guess what I did? I went to counseling for 3 months to get him off my back. My counselor was a gay man with a master in psychology. It did not take long for him to tell me that I did not need to continue our sessions since I did not need his services.[quote]

obviously that is a very unhealthy reaction to terminal illness. your gay psych probably found you so offensive that he told you whatever he needed to to get you the hell out of his breathing space. i know i would! i had a friend - a straight male (yes, i do have them!) who had suicidal thoughts and his doctor put him in a psych's care. he, like you, felt he didn't need treatment and told me he told the psych what the psych wanted to hear just so he could be discharged. it worked. he hanged himself a year later.

[Aineo]

I followed my doctors advise and your analysis of my sessions with the counselors is so far off base it simply shows how desperate you are to denigrate me as an individual. Are you having fun?

Oh I listened to what the psychologist had to saw. I am not so arrogant as to believe I cannot learn from those who have college degrees. What I learned was that I am basically correct in my position that mental health providers attempt to force their training on their clients since both men tried to convince me that my being ex-gay was me denying my real nature. It was only after they understood they could not convince me that they then turned to talking about my HIV status.

[doodlewacker]

[Aineo]

Is English your second language? I posted that I will not deal with adolescence I refer them to qualified counselors.

Now your accusations are verging on slander. I suggest you calm down.

[doodlewacker]

[Aineo]

[Sweetkiyyu]

Aineo I hate seeing you take such abuse.

[Aineo]

[QUIC]

This is the first time i've heard about this.

Where can I get a copy of this "Homosexual Agenda" ? from the few extracts you've included - it appears i'm not being a propper homosexual. *Hidden Sarcasm*.

Is this what people think that ALL gay people do/want to do?

[Aineo]

[QUIC]

[Aineo]

The harm caused by the "gay agenda" is that rabid gay activists are out to discredit and suppress all information that homosexuality is not inborn, innate, and immutable and they are doing this by disseminating lies with the full support and encouragment of professional organizations that use less than professional tactics to support gay activism.

The reason most ex-gays are supportive of lgbt issues and support groups is we fully understand the pressures of dealing with a gay orientation is a primarily straight world that also disseminates lies and misinformation by so-called faith based organizations that do not represent the tenets of Christianity.

There is a middle ground where real dialogue would be beneficial to both camps.
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[Eshto]

[Aineo]

Eshto, what part of the post you quoted is an outright lie? The fact that people can and have changed their sexual orientation has been documented in at least 1000 reports published in professional journals starting in 1936, which ended in 1976 only because of the APA's 1973 decision.

Unbiased scientists (including Christians) have stated the causes of homosexuality include but are not limited to a combination of biology, environment, and personality, this includes a couple gay activists icons Simon LeVay and Dean Hamer.

As to your taking exception to thousands of men and women changing their sexual orientation since not all of these ex-gays changed their orientation with professional help there is no way to come up with an accurate number. So unless you know something that I don't your post lacks credibility.
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[comforter001]

Rakim


If you are following Jesus Christ then you need to re-apply yourself here Christ called the Natural Eunuch blessed and if so that he should be one he should receive it.

Matthew 19:12 12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive this, let him receive it.

Christ did not distinguish between one leper or the other from one sinner or the other. Had he we would be paying for our own sins right at this very minute. Christ confirmed that for this reason I came into the world. Not to condemn but to save. Christ already died for each sin that we commit and that even includes trying to categorize other sinners. It is not our place to judge them or allude to their behavior one way or the other. Our job is to try and live as Christ like life as possible and that in its nutshell is loving everyone as ourselves. In this we accomplish love for God, Love for Him and love for everyone and everything. It is not for us to distinguish Sin for we all have sinned and our all sinners even until our last breath.
Every time we try to vindicate our own position scripture based or not, you invalidate Christ sacrifice, by passing your own judgement on a person or persons.
I suggest getting a Strongs Concordance and a Hebrew orginal text as well as a Greek text Bible and do a search for Homosexuality in them. You will not find one word describing Homosexuality other than Eunuch and I already quoted what Christ spoke concerning the Eunuch.
As long as the sinner does not effect your belief in God and Christ and does not change whom you are at the core you should place no concern about rights or responsibilities other than that which is concerned towards your own salvation. If gay marriage where legalized and you believed it to be wrong than believe that. And if it is wrong and a sin than Christ himself already suffered that sin on the Cross and God will have a punishment for it on God's terms not ours.

[Aineo]

A natural eunuch would be any man who is sterile and does not apply to fertile men who engage in same sex relationships. Apply the term "eunuch" to gay men is a modern interpretation of an ancient custom. It is ludicrous to take what Jesus is teaching concerning divorce and remarriage to apply to men who were never married. Jesus is teaching about celibacy not sexuality in Matthew 19:11-12.
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[comforter001]

In no way did I try to apply divorcement to a Eunuchs position if such a Eunuch existed, ie; sterile, as you say then making ones self sterile is a far jump to castrating oneself. It is impossible to make yourself sterile, although it is possible to castrate yourself for sake of being a Eunuch. Both times Christ describes these men as they are for Heavens sake not for the sake of man. Your description is off. Eunuchs where renowned as trusted guards of the Roman Empire, staying close watch to queens or women of state, this fact is a matter of history and as Christ proclaims there are those men whom are born to such and those whom try to mutilate themselves to become these types of men as they where trusted individuals and wanted positions that the Natural Eunuch held. As you state it would make no sense for Christ to distinguish between the different types. How do you make yourself sterile for Heavens sake? There where plenty of monks and priest in Christ day that practiced Celibacy why not then did he just use the word celebate instead of Eunuch. Don't confuse the issue, I am not saying one way or the other that homosexuality is a sin only YHVH knows.

[Aineo]

In the Roman Empire and other ancient cultures eunuchs were castrated men and usually slaves who were trusted only because their owners viewed their lack of ability to procreate as insurance they did not have family concerns that would detract from their duties and loyalties. It is you who need to study history.

As to how Jesus used the term "eunuch" in Matthew 19, you need to reread it and with discernment.

[comforter001]

Your bible differs from mine in the exact wording. But you made a wonderful point. These scriptures detail that some MEN are born this way!!! And in so being they should practice celibacy. My point here is that Christ does acknowledge that there are people who have feelings that through no fault of their own are born GAY...or He would not mention it. This is my point... One that you are glossing over... I am not saying that acts of sin are ok I am trying to relate to others that may hate themselves because they feel they are an abomination. When in all truth sin is the abomination and that is the topic.
I try to save those whom have these feelings, from since they can remember to find value in whom the are through Christ's words. So as that others don't become losers for killing themselves as you put it on your testimony page
I feel for anyone who thinks that because someone killed themselves they are a loser. That is sad to me.

And in no way is this self serving. Please don't lash out me I have offered up nothing but a way for others to help understand, their emotions and feelings. I in no way have condoned any action of sin or told anyone by my post that sin is acceptable. I have only offered and explanation to them that Jesus Christ knows of them. So all this hog was about people not being born this way is out the window if you are a Christian.

Hebrews 4:13-16

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

But I am going to bow out of this now and concede. God Bless.

[Alpha]

[comforter001]

Sorry I should have said I try to help those instead of save. I apologize.

[Aineo]

In Matthew 19 Jesus uses natural eunuchs for men who have physical abnormalities, He is not addressing men who have sexual thoughts or desires for other men and to try to interpret what He said as condoning same sex sexual relationships is self-serving.

Helping people accept themselves for who they are is comendable, but when a professed Christian equates behavior with who they are they define who they are by their behavior. Straight men and women who cannot control their sex drive can use your argument to justify their own predilications as can pedophiles.

[comforter001]

I in know way have defined that the act of sexual promescuity as acceptable or that of any sin for that matter. Why do you keep saying this. It's obsurd.

[Aineo]

[comforter001]

You show me one scripture in the Holy Bible that says living with a man is a sin. And I will show you a moon made out of cheese. And so it's clear "that is living with a man." I seem to remember a man named Jesus Christ who lived with 12 of them. Not once have I tried to promote gay sexual relationships. Where in heavens name are you getting this. Once again you want to infer your own meaning of what I mean based upon your interpretation of what I am trying to say. You make no effort none to find out anything about me.

[Aineo]

Men Living with men is not a sin. Men having sex with another man is sin. Show me in the Bible where Jesus in plain language be it Greek or Hebrew tells any person that it is okay to practice sin.
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[comforter001]

I Never said it was ok...Why do you keep saying that I have? Stop avoiding my question and skatting around it and show me where I said Jesus condones sin. I have never once said that so stop inferring that I have.

[Aineo]

[comforter001]

[Aineo]

comforter001, I was a gay activist before you were born. I know the tactics used by gay activists and their supporters. Now, Jesus was not addressing the plight of anyone in Matthew 19 when He used the term "eunuch", He was using this word to describe men who after a divorce remain celibate to the glory of God as well as men who cannot for medical reasons reproduce, and men who were castrated.

Gay activists have registered here and tried to show that by His use of the phrase "eunuchs, who were so born from their mother's womb" Jesus meant a homosexual orientation. If you have never heard this then I suggest you search the Internet and educate yourself before you continue to promote your own interpretation of this one portion of Scripture. Eunuch was never used in the ancient world to refer to gay men, since gay men are not eunuchs by any definition you can find, gay men can reproduce and their genitalia are not damaged so they are not eunuchs and therefore are not "eunuchs from their mother's womb".
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[FindingFaith27]

I know this topic is dead, but after readingthrough this thread I was compelled to say something. Aineo, I don't know you from a can of paint, but I must commend you. You my friend took a lot of abuse by those who refuse to accept the truth of Gods teachings where this issue is concerend. When most would have tucked their tails and run, you stood your ground. May God bless you for sticking tight to truth. It was said that in the last days false teacers would come and lead many astray. We can see that this very thing is happening just reading through this thread. I think it is what is referred to as willful ignorance. Anyways, I just wanted to say thanks for sticking to your guns. It can be so hard to do in a ever increasing secular socity. You really inspired me.

In closing it seems you have alot of Atheist or what not on your board. I am not sure if this is okay with you them being here an all. If it is that's cool but if you have found it hard to regulatewho comes and goes here you should check out this place http://www.bibleforums.org/forum/index.php? They pretty much do the same thing you do here, but the environment is a safe one for Christians to express their views free of harrassment. Now be clear atheist are not banned from the site but the mods run a pretty thorough site that prevents the sort of unwarranted attacks I saw you endure. Anyways, the placeis worth taking a look. Again thanks for inspiring me.

[Aineo]

Thank you for your words of encouragement.

JCF is designed for open dialogue between members of all faiths or lack of any faith. Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 5:9-11

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one.
NAS

Romans 10:11-15
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; 13 for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings of good things!" NAS

Abuse goes with the territory, since as Jesus said:

John 15:18-27
18 "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 "Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 "But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. 22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 "He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 "If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25 "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, 'They hated Me without a cause.' 26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me, 27 and you will bear witness also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
NAS
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